v2comp

I am brand new to this and I have a question, I want to fill 3 small water tanks with (1) water valve at the same time and I have 3 separate float valves with switches ( one in each tank), I dont want the main water valve to switch off until all three reach full. the float valves/switches control the water flow indepentently by shutting off the flow themselves manually at each tank, but as one fills I need the remaining to continue to fill. I want the main water valve (motorized ball valve) to continue until all 3 are full. I am struggling with how to structure the ladder correctly without having separate motorized ball valves at each tank, but because the float valves/switches can shut off the flow mechanically themselves as well as send an electrical signal back to an input, I just want the main water valve to be the only other valve component can someone please help me structure the ladder correctly? I have been reading and trying different things, but it isnt working. the valve shuts off as soon as the first first tank reaches full and I just dont know enough to fix it.

Thanks guys. I appreciate the help, yes, I am all for this thing being as safe as possible and appreciate the guidance, I figured out the wiring and addressing the thermocouples before I read the response post, (stupid oversight on my part) I bought the plc over a year ago and read the pdf's then, and knew I had read about where to wire the thermocouples before and how to address them, I had just forgot where to look.

v120-22-UN2 question about wiring an analog input. I know this is basic wiring stuff for most of you guys, but I need help understanding how to wire and address a type k thermocouple. on the PLC itself, (I7 I8) and (I9 I10) are dedicated analog input terminals. if I attach each wire from a two wire type k thermocouple to I7 and I8, which one do I use for the input operand address.?

I have been looking, and the Honewell units (169.00 ea) seem like a reasonable option, (but I dont know anything about them either). in terms of placement in the system, you saw how I originally have the components laid out, where would you advise putting them? should they just control a seperate gas valve inline before the proportional valve? I understand that they are looking for flame, and if they dont see it, they wont open or fire the spark igniter, my questions about them are some of the specs they show, if I understand the wording they use it looks like if one of them doesnt see the flame that they have prepurge waiting cyucles of 30 seconds and reset settings of 20 seconds, am I gonna have to have some kind of air to clear out the gas or can I just let it function without that. these little burners arent gonna need a ton of makeup air but either way I am instaling a vapor hood and make up air system in the building just to make sure I dont kill myself with carbon monoxide fumes. I would really appreciate any advise you can give. thanks. EDIT: I found some more units, they are twice the cost, but are new technology and can control multiple burners at once "Automatic Burner Control Unit IFD 258" from Combustion 911. probably overkill, but they look like they will control the flame, ingite the burners after a fault automatically and have all the safety built in. I can still control the proportional gas valve with the PLC and leave the flame control to the device. if you see anything wrong here let me know.

thanks Keith, I appreciate your suggestion and will do exactly as you said if they are easy enough to find. I am all for doing this safely and would be glad to put these into the system. thanks again. I didnt even know they existed......

thank you very much, it really has helped me get started.

if I use expansion modules #'s IO-ATC8/A18 and IO-A06X with the 120-22-UN2 controller, will that work to control the proportional valves that I listed in my last reply?

first off Don, thanks for responding, second of all, as I said in my second post, I realized I came off demanding and looking at it, it does look like I was wanting the entire thing done for me. that was and is not my intention, I was just having a hard time (especially since I have no background in electronics or plc programming) and just didnt understand the basics. I have been thrashing this thing out (using Help and google and plctalk and anywhere else I can find information) trying to understand the relationships between the the different parts of the system. I know I am in way over my head, but I have made "some" progress, very little, but some. I really appreciate your efforts and it was just what I needed. as far as the proportional valve, I have two differrent units I can use, 1. an ASCO posillow proportional valve; Flow Rates Adjustable Between 0% and 100% of Rating<li>Control Achieved by Applying Straight Voltage Between 0 and 24 VDC via Potentiometer or Other Variable Power Supply<li>Flow Rate Can Be Regulated by a Range of Electrical Inputs via an ASCO Electronic Control Unit or Similar Circuit<li>Suitable for Use in Air/Gas and Low Vacuum Service and to Control Flow of Water Precisely Electrical characteristics:Nominal supply voltage: 24 VDC ± 10%, maximum ripple 10% Maximum full-load current: 1100 mA (factory set at 500 mA) Input control signal (selectable): 0-10 VDC or 0-20 mA or 4-20 mA Switch-off current: <2% of max. input control signal Adjustable off-set: 15-50% of pulse width modulation voltage Adjustable full-load: 30-100% of pulse width modulation voltage Ramp time: Manually activated via on/off switch; adjustable 0.1-3 seconds Adjustable PWM frequency: 40-700 Hz Power consumption: 0.8 watts Designed for applications where on/off won't do what you want. Available with 0-10 VDC, 0-20 mA, or 4-20 mA control signal. For pipe sizes from 1/4" to 3/8" NPT, with pressure ranges up to 230 PSI. 2. Koganei KFPV050-2-30-FM-BR-02 Proportional valve High-precision Proportional Control Valve has been newly developed, which is optimum for the production lines, plants, etc of air, gas, liquid, etc. The stepless control is realized, which is necessary to control the flow rate of gas and liquid. Standard input signal can be selected from 4 to 20mA in current as well as 0 to 10 V in voltage. Controller is equipped with initial setting support circuit, so that the initial setting is performed without any external input. these are the units I have and would like to use the ASCO more then the Koganei from a cost only standpoint. I have attached pictures of both with the Koganei having a more detailed wiring / control picture. I dont know if either will work with the vision unit I have (again, not an electrical engineer) but these are the units I bought with the intention of making this happen. if they wont work with the v120-22-un2, which unit from Unitronics would be more suitable? I really appreciate your help, and I will try to refrain from being so impatient.. thanks again, Derrell

;)Thanks guys, I guess I will use some other controller designed for homebrewing rigs or something, sorry for bothering you......

I think I asked for too much, or didnt give enough information, or both...lol I didnt mean to sound like I was demanding someone help me, but when I re-read it this morning, It sounded like I was an arrogant prick. sorry about that. I got about 4 and a half hours sleep last night as I stayed up working on this thing and so far havent really made any progress. I think I understand some of it (using the included examples) and trial and error. maybe if I simplify it more than I could get a more favorable response. I bet you guys hate newbs......... Would one of you be willing to just walk me through a simpler input / output scenario using a thermocouple to activate a valve and a temperature setpoint to shut off the valve?

I hope this is the place for posting this question, I have been getting together the necessary equipment for my brewery and have never worked with programming plc's, ladder logic or HMI's and am not an electricial engineer or electrician. I have gone over and over the documentation and it is very helpful, (I even got a thermocouple to read out on the v120 unit I have created and downloaded display screens to the unit). the problem I am having is understanding how system bits and integers and memory bits and integers work withon the system. (before you tell me to go back to school or read another book, I would really appreciate you looking at what I have drawn and advise me as to how to start) I have attached a drawing that would layout a simple operation (to me anyway) for the plc to control with limited operator involvement. realize that I will only be building the mechanical part of the system and licensed electricians, plumbers and gas workers will do all the necessary work to comply with the local building codes. what I would like is for one of you guys that completely understand the v120-22-un2, to build a ladder program for me that would run this operation as I will explain and send it to me so that I can study and understand it better. as you will see, I am not looking for someone to design and engineer the entire thing, I just need help getting started with addressing inputs and outputs and the reasons they are done in the order they are. Step1. power up the machine. 2. display screen 3. initiate run sequence to fill boil kettle a. switch 120vac on/off solenoid valve to ON position b. once liquid level is reached (as determined by the 24v liquid level sensor), solenoid valve switches to OFF position. 4.once liquid level has been reached and solenoid valve closes, a. PLC looks for temperature of 212F on thermocouple, when it finds less than 212F in initiates run burner sequence which checks liquid level sensor to make sure liquid is present, b. once PLC scans and finds less than 212F and liquid is present, 24v proportional gas valve opens to 50%, pezio flameless igniter fires 10 sparks, flame detector searches for flame, if no flame present after 5 seconds or 10 electric sparks, 24v proportional gas valve closes, pezio igniter STOPS firing, alarm signals operator to check for problems, reset button must be manually pressed to reset run condition. system trys again to run step 4. c. if flame is detected, pezio igniter stops firing, 24v proportional gas valve opens to 100% and runs at 100% until thermocouple detects 212F 5.once thermocouple reaches 212F setpoint, or 45 minutes has expired. a. 24v proportional gas valve switches to +/- 10% to maintain a rolling boil for 60 - 90 minutes depending on setting desired and entered into ladder program before running. b. if 45 minutes expires before reaching 212F, operator must manually reset system to burn for 15 more minutes. if 212F isnt reached in the 1 hour total, 24v proportional gas valve closes and alarm sounds indicating major fault. must be repaired by technician. 6. once timer has reached desired boil length, plc indicates alarm complete on plc screen. Added: also at anytime if the flame detector loses the flame the system reverts back to step 4 but the timer continues for whatever operation may be happening. I would really appreciate your help on this project, as I am stumbling through wothout any real experience and a real world example of how these are constructed given an environment I fully understand would help tremendously. thank you for your help and I look forward to your responses, questions and comments.

I know how much there is to learn and am opening a Nano brewery in Alabama and am using a v120 for my plc. I was wondering if you already knew about ladder logic before you started this project or if you learned it as you went? I have been playing with mine for about a month, but I have no training whatsoever and it is frustrating to say the least. if possible, would love to here how you went about it and I may even need your help if you wouldnt mind sharing what you have learned. Thanks, Derrell Chattahoochee Brewing Co., LLC