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Posts posted by Damian
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AB Micrologix devices use Ethernet/IP (explicit with PCCC encapsulation) on the Ethernet port. Unitronics does not support this, instead, they support ModbusTCP.
Which Micrologix? The 1100 will only do explicit Ethernet/IP messaging, but the 1400 will do a raw protocol as well. I suppose you could write your own protocol between the two devices, but that would be a fair amount of work using the 'raw port' (my words) capability of each device.
Suggestions:
1. Buy protocol converter. There are many and they cost a few hundred dollars (and up).
2. Use serial - I think Unitronics supports DF1 on serial, so that should work (never used it).
3. AB supports Modbus on serial, so use serial with Modbus.
4. Convince Unitronics to support Ethernet/IP (I would like this, too).
5. Convince AB to support ModbusTCP. Good luck! The Logix5000 series support it in code.
6. Write your own protocol and use it over TCP/IP using the raw ports capability of a 1400 and Unitronics devices
7. I am sure I missed some...
Hi Bill,
Can you please explain what you meant by "The Logix5000 series support it in code"?
Thanks,
Damian
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If you are losing your socket connection it could be either an issue with your ethernet switch or simply a bad connection.
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New request.
I believe this one to be very simple.
When Visilogic is installed on the PC, why can't the latest version still name the directory that it is installed in based on the current version?
Or more simply, instead of just
"Unitronics VisiLogic_C"
why not
"Unitronics VisiLogic_C_V8_6_3"
?
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I have now given the Beta a run, and also like the higher colour depth. Will this flow on to the colour selection for HMI objects like buttons? I note that the choice is still only 9 colours for 3D buttons and 256 colours for flat objects. Rather than a colour picker with 65536 colours, just the ability to enter the RGB code would be fine...
Also, since this update brings 16-bit colour to the V350 and V570, are we any closer to seeing an active USB port on the V570?
(I tried it out after loading the Beta OS and it came up in the Windows Device Manager as an Unknonw Device called Test2, but went no further.)
Simon has a good point. Makes little sense to have 16bit color if the HMI objects can't support them. Should be able to pick from a color pallet and save that RGB code as a favorite. The 3d buttons would really benefit from having more than 9 colors.
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Stumbled across this today...
http://www.designworldonline.com/articles/6661/21/Miniaturized-Positioning-Controller.aspx
Miniature motion controllers based on CAN.
Possibly something Unitronics can Re-label or integrate into their architecture to expand their motion capability.
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We are working on Profibus Slave optional card for V130/350, but the issue is not scheduled yet.
Why would they make it exclusive to the V230/250? There are Siemens HMI's in the area that I could replace with a V570 if they had profibus.
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.................................... Crickets ..................
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Damian,
Good on ya for moving up to Windows 7! It's really a great operating system (Vista was a disaster!!)
There is only one thing in Windows 7 that causes MANY programs MANY issues and that is User Account Control (Commonly known as UAC)
The best idea once you get your laptop is to disable UAC in the Control Panel (Its under "Users"). Then it will be smooth sailing with VisiLogic from there
Hi Ash,
Thanks for the tip. I'll definitely take you up on your advise. Does that mean also that I don't need to worry about running it in XP mode?
Thanks,
Damian
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Hello All,
I have ordered a new Laptop and have finally worked up enough bravery to step out of my windows XP pro comfort zone.
The new PC will have Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit. It also has a so called XP mode that supposedly allows you to run programs as if your machine was a 32 bit XP animal.
I was hoping to hear success stories from other's that have the same OS and running Visilogic without issues. Is everyone already running on the platform without issue, or should I brace myself for heartache and agravation?
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Hi Damian, I'm from Honduras central america, I'm student, actually am making my professional practice... I'm new in unitronics.. we have many plc allen bradley, so I want to use unitronics like hmi with the allen bradley, but are not sure how it make ?,
do you have the code ?,
please help me,
att, Darwin
Hi Darwin,
I've been to Honduras. Nice people. You will find in the support section of Uni's main site a document that was written that discusses using DF1 to communicate to an Allen Bradley PLC. Depending on what you have, my recommendations would change. In my instance with the Compact Logix, I actually used Modbus RTU instead. This is also possible with a Micrologix. You can also do this with a SLC CPU but only with the most recent firmware and software.
If you choose the DF1 route, I only had luck with passing 16bit integers. Everything else gave me difficulty. It could have been just me, but Unitronics themselves don't have much internal support for communicating with AB so those of us who try are primarily on our own.
Warning, Using DF1 needs to be approached with caution. You definitely want to work things out on a table first before putting on a machine. The memory mapping can get confusing and if you mess is up you can easily overwrite areas that you should not be. Once you get past the addressing the code itself is very simple.
Damian
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Hi,
I have installed a couple of V280 with E4XB snap in modules and AI module, and J Type TCs, and all I get is 32767 values for the TC inputs on the screens.
I have checked all the wiring, jumpers, hardware configuration and display configuration, and don't find the problem.
Can someone help?
Thnks
Post your code
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Thanks for replies
Basic problem is that 3 pumps work as a group (one master pump controlling a dumb slave and a spare master) pumping to one place the fourth needs to pump to another, according to the pump expert if I connect all pumps on one modbus the pumps will be a group of four even if I give seperate modbus Id's. Think the only way around is to replace the dumb slave as a master as well then will have all masters and can put on one modbus system and control as seperate pumps through the ladder logic.
Life would be so much easier if customers ask for input during design phase.
Oh yeah Damian these pumps can work on a cascade mode if one master pump cant keep up that pump will automatically start up the slave pump without any outside input control needed ,also using canbus to communicate with a V130 300 meters away so only have one com port avaiable for controlling these pumps.
I'm still confused. Why can't you setup all the pumps to be modbus slaves to the V570? Does the "master" pump necessarily have to be the Modbus master??
Also, if you have a V130 in your system talking CAN with the V570, doesn't that have the additional comm ports your looking for?
What's really in control here? The Unitronics or the Pumps?
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Emil, Cara, or anyone in R&D,
One of my biggest hurdles with the Unitronics product in general is Ethernet connectivity. For control architecture, we are pretty much limited to Modbus TCP/IP. On top of this limitation, we are then only allowed 4 concurrent socket connections. Since I commonly do projects with many nodes of ethernet this makes Unitronics unsuited for projects that in all other facets it would have been more than capable of.
I have been lobbying for the adoption of either the addtion of more sockets, or EthernetIP for some time now. Either one of these solutions would effectively overcome the issue.
Last year about this time I did quite a bit of experimenation with "socket sharing". Basically instead of dedicating a socket to one device the socket would be opened and closed to sequentially establish connections to many devices. What this experimentation showed was that it takes an eternity for the V570 to establish a socket connection in comparison to how long it takes to actually transmit data once the connection has been established. In "real" numbers I found that with no artificial time delays added, it took about 100ms for the Uni to establish the connection regardless of what my slave device was. Therefore if I have say 4 devices on one socket, I am looking at close to a half second update rate for data refresh. Completely untenable with machine running at sub second cycle times.
Recently, the thought has popped into my head, why does it take so awfully long for the connection to be established? So I did some reading to try and find out what is normal or expected. To my suprise, what I found was there doesn't appear to be a good reason for it taking so long. Some documentation suggested that socket connections could be established at the sub millisecond level. Even if we were up around the milisecond level, that is still plently of time to handle socket sharing in the ladder and achieving acceptable performance.
Soooooo ...... I guess what I am doing is requesting the R&D department to look into their TCP/IP code to see if anything could be done to decrease the socket connection times. My suspicion is there are a series of conservative time delays built in to account for connecting to "slower" devices. Maybe they are parameters that could be made variable or part of the Modbus IP Cofig block so that we can refine the values to better suit our individual needs. Or possibly there are just delays that simply don't need to be there at all and since the code works noone has bothered to question it.
At least in my case, it would go along way towards helping me use Unitronics on more projects.
Thanks,
Damian
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V350-35-T38
What is the difference between PWM using a HSO and PTO? I am playing with a PWM output now.
Looks like it works fine. But PWM is different from a Pulse Train for a servo.
I see a different area in the hardware config for PTO out and PWM out, but what block does one use for PTO in the software?Â
Do we set up the output for PTO in the hardware config and then just use the same block in software as the PWM?
Also, what is the easiest way to convert the PWM out to an analog voltage? I was thinking of adding a resistor and a capacitor to the output terminal on the V350. WIll this be a problem for the V350?
On the later, when done in the hardare setup, you can generate a pulse without really having anything in the program. No function blocks necessary.
Easiest way of converting PWM to analog is in the software. Provided you have an available hardware analog output.
If you are trying to make a cheap and dirty analog output using a digital output, there are many pitfalls. It would kind of work provided you required very crude accuracy and the input inpedence of what you were feeding is very high, and the resistor used was sized large enough to keep the instantaneous current well within the range of the output transistor. Then you have to consider the "filtering" effects of the RC combination and what that does to the response time between when a change is made to the PWM signal and when that change settles out on the output.
Unless you are stranded on a desert island and have no other way, it probably isn't worth it.
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For me it comes down to the simplicity and elegance of the Unitronics units. Why do users still get excited about a 3.5" colour touch a-la the V350? Maybe becuase it fills their needs in a simple and unique way. IMHO, a screen size above about 12" starts to get away from this fundamental elegance. I would rather see enhancements to the existing range, such as wider range power supplies (10...30V), wider temperature ranges (upper limit of 60 or 65 degrees C) and industrial ethernet protocols such as Profinet and Ethernet/IP.
There are plenty of Modbus HMIs available if big is really required. However, if Unitronics came up with a 19" touch with an elegant look and feel then I am sure it would be a winner.
Simon,
I agree. I think the market for anything above 12" will drop steeply in volume anyhow. Probably not worth the development costs. In those cases, if they really wanted to amp up the sizes, maybe it would be better to re-label an off the shelf touchscreen and interface it to the guts of a V570.
The Four biggest reasons I often have difficulty getting Unitronics on a job are:
1) 5.7 inch screen often just not big enough (Soon to be solved with the V1040)
2) Limited fieldbus capability (EthernetIP and Devicenet are huge in my neck of the woods) ASIbus, and Profibus are probably next on the list. The hardware to do both EthernetIP and Devicenet is practically already there (ethernet port and CAN port).
3) Poor brand recognition. (This continues to get better, and addressing the two above items would help that tremendously)
4) Limited to 4 ethernet socket connections (as ridiculus as this sounds, it has killed several projects that ultimately ended up being switched to a CompactLogix) If you need fast ethernet control to more than four ethernet based devices your out of luck. This could easily be overcome by EthernetIP.
Ash,
I've heard a lot of good things about Ethercat. Unfortunately it just doesn't seem to be as wide spread yet. It will be interesting to see the direction Fieldbus takes over the next decade. Maybe QEB (Quantum Entanglement Bus) or SFBAAD (Spooky Fieldbus at a Distance). Wouldn't wireless be wonderful and frightening all at the same time.
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10" is hardly "BIG" screen. Definately moving in the right direction but to keep up with other HMI panels I would be more impressed if you were releasing a range of scren sizes up to 19"
Based on projects I have seen and been on, I think the 10" and possibly a 12" will satisfy the vast majority of demand.
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If you really want to go big...
Come up with a module that has an HDMI output. Then we could plug it into a 50" TV bought at the local electronics store.
YEAH, BABY!!
Joe T.
Yeah, and an extra big port to plug in the video game cartridges.
Anyone need a "mine sweeper" or "solitaire" app for the V570?
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Ok--not cute--it's RUGGED! Very, very rugged--you could bring it to a WWF event...Nascar....
I'm relieved. You had me thinking they were going to be pink and purple with little pigtails coming out the sides.
As regards the beta testing, we're covered-- thanksOh sure Cara, kick me when I'm down!
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Hi,
As I mentioned, It's ventilation system controller, that has MODBUS TCP/IP port for data exchange. And that part of table is from instruction manual of that controller (yes, in my topic above I forgot to write that these are MODBUS TCP/IP register addresses of that controller). Oh, and the table I tried to write collapsed:) I'll try once more in other way:
1information register (r / w) : "scope" object link (0x2301'Unit1\SplyFanSpv.St1Spv'); connection to object element (0x0100); register address(9); description (0..100%).
So, if connection to object is 0x0100 and register address is 9, then my START OF VECTOR in modbus tcp/ip should be 109(hex) ->265(dec). I don't know if I understand this part right..
Hi Vidmas,
Ignore all the stuff about Object member. You only care about the address. For the "holding registers" register address 9 is "supply FC frequency setpoint for Stage 1". If you want to read this value in you will use the slave starting address as 9 and the Length as 1 using a "Read Holding Registers (3)" function. If you want to write a new value to this register, you would need to use the "Preset Holding Registers (16)" function instead.
The "object member" codes they list seem to be referencing internal memory locations. They should not have any ramifications on the MODBUS mapping.
It looks as though Unitronics does not support all of the functions your controller has (such as read only one input register, read only one single state register). Your controller also references the reading and writing of single coil registers. You might have to experiment to see if Unitronics Read Coils and Write Coils function are compatible with this.
Hopefully you can accomplish everything you need with just the Holding Registers.
Fortunately all your registers appear to be 16bit. This also makes things much easier. You'll be able to load them directly into MI registers one to one.
Good Luck!
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Hi,
As I mentioned, It's ventilation system controller, that has MODBUS TCP/IP port for data exchange. And that part of table is from instruction manual of that controller (yes, in my topic above I forgot to write that these are MODBUS TCP/IP register addresses of that controller). Oh, and the table I tried to write collapsed:) I'll try once more in other way:
1information register (r / w) : "scope" object link (0x2301'Unit1\SplyFanSpv.St1Spv'); connection to object element (0x0100); register address(9); description (0..100%).
So, if connection to object is 0x0100 and register address is 9, then my START OF VECTOR in modbus tcp/ip should be 109(hex) ->265(dec). I don't know if I understand this part right..
Ofir is right, a screen shot of the chart would help.
Are you reading 16 bit values or 32 bit values?
Not sure what your documentation means by "object" in this context. If it is referring to the type of data or the offset of that type of data (ie . bits, floats, ints, etc) then this is already implicit in the function call itself.
If your register address is 9 and is 16bit, then really your vector start should only be 9.
Do you have a link to an online manual associated with the documentation you have??
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Good day,
Started new project, where I need to connect with my V350-35-TU24 to ventilation system regulator to read some register and to control speed (remote). In it's manual described : 1information register (r / w): _______________________________________________________________________
| "scope" object link | connection to object element | register address | description |
|___________________|________________________|_______________|___________|
| 0x2301'Unit1\SplyFan- | 0x0100 | 9 | (0..100%) |
| Spv.St1Spv' | | | |
|___________________|________________________|_______________|___________|
The same way are described all registers. Since I'm doing this first time, I don't know if I'm doing this right way (addressing):
If I want to read register, then in Uni Vision I choose block READ HOLDING REGISTERS (3) (after initiallizing card and socket) and question is what to write in SLAVE:START OF VECTOR? Following description above would it be 1009(hex) ->4105(dec)? and Vector length =1?
Thank you for your answers!
It almost sounds like the above is ASCII.
It sounds like your using modbus, so you shouldn't have to worry about how the Data is framed. You only need to worry about the address of the data you are looking to poll. Slave Start of Vector is the Modbus address that the data in your slave device maps to. Is your device a Modbus device?
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Hi
Hope someone can help on one of my jobs I've ran out of communications ports on the V570 using com 1 for modem (sms), com 2 for modbus and com 3 has an ethernet port for modem my problem is that due to the type of pumps that my customer bought I need three pumps on one modbus and another pump on seperate modbus only one lot of pumps will be running at one time, cant run them on one due to the three pumps using cascade control mode, third pump slave model so unable to run pumps as individuals. Trying to find a cost effective solution, does anyone know of a device that will allow me to use one master com port to plug into plc and switch between two slave ports going to the two groups of pumps or any other ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks
Can you please explain what is meant by "cascade control mode"?
On Comm 2. Are all devices RS485? Or is one device only RS422?
Also an option to consider, getting a CAN to serial converter since it does not sound like you are using your CAN port.
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I believe the pulse timers like SB3 and SB7 are square waves, on for one period, off for the same amount. Not sure if SB7 is on for 50 mS /50 mS or 100/100. I used to know this, but I turn 40 in a week, and my mind is not as clear as it used to be
Hi Tim,
Sorry, I was going from memory and confused SB7 with SB15. Realized it as soon as I hit send.
One thing I have noticed in the past. The very first time you initiate a Modbus function it seems to take appreciably longer for it to process than normal. After the first process, it then seems to be consistent. I wonder if your first call of the RHR or PHR is taking over 100ms and stuffing everything up thereafter.
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you should not need to add the modbus offset 40000 or 400000 to the Red Lion. Just use the address direclty.
The largest modbus mapping address is under FFFF, which is 65535. So you should be fine
Win7 Professional 64bit VisiLogic OS update
in Vision & Samba PLC + HMI Controllers & VisiLogic Software
Posted
Try running in XP Mode.