Damian
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Posts posted by Damian
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As an idea, when we are selecting the feedback type in the declaration window, maybe we could select RAW, and then R&D could develop a function block. This FB would allow you to select any of the feedback options available. It would also allow you to select during runtime between using F or C. This solves a couple conundrums. 1) It keeps everything backwards compatible, 2) It gives users like those of us in this thread the increased flexibility that we need, and 3) it also overcomes the problem of not wantiing all those curve tables downloaded all the time since it would only do so if you used that function block.
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Sounds like a list of texts by pointer, with built in functions:
- to scroll up and down (no need for INC/DEC in ladder)
- select the currently displayed entry (no need for COMPARE in ladder)
- more flexible loading of dynamic string source data, maybe direct link to DT?
Hi Simon,
Pretty much that is all it is. With the added notion of being able to view multiple lines in the list like a spreadsheet column.
Some act like drop down lists as well. You touch the field and it expands and you can see all the available entires (or maybe has a scroll bar also if you have more entries than the control is tall), then you simply select the one you want and it automatically loads that list offset into an operand you assign.
I like your hint about the DT link as well. I was afraid to suggest it at the expense of making it seem like too much work, but that would be a really slick feature.
D
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I am curious, and confused - I don't see that option:
Can you post a screen image?
Hi Simon,
That's too funny. Looks like I accidently download the Pro version.
What version of windows are you using? I wonder if it is related to that Navigation Panel thing that I could never get to disable.
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The SDW registers 0,2,42,43, and 44 are all system counters that appear to be read only.
They only appear to RESET when the actual unit itself is reset.
Based on some quick calcs, it would seem that SDW0 would elapse after roughly 20 days of continuous running.
My question is, what happens when it does?
My concern is that I have used SDW0 in the past to perform certain timing functions, and it is not uncommon for machines to be left on continously for 20+ days.
Does it simply recycle itself back to zero? Is there some rollover bit that gets set that I can monitor? Does it just stop counting all together?
Is there a way to reset it through the program so that I can prevent it from elapsing?
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Back on the subject of the big "grey area" (no pun intended) to the right of where we build the ladder. I would really love to be able to dock my Output window on the side instead of on the bottom. I find myself constanly expanding the Output window up and then folding it down. Huge time waster. The grey area to the right, with my settings, is literally larger in width than the ladder window and the tree window combined.
It is very easy to see that tree window is vertically dockable, this is a simple setting in VB. Can we please ask R&D to select the setting for the output window to be vertically dockable as well? I wouldn't even mind docking it to the left vertically as well.
Also,
It won't let me resize the undocked window, this also easily fixable in VB.
Please .................................... Pretty Please.
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>canned scrolling list function<
Damian, maybe my brain is a bit clouded from weekend festivities...but I don't know what you mean exactly.
Could you explain a bit further?
Hi Cara,
Below are three that come on another piece of software I have to use often. I can make screen shots as well if it helps. It's takes a long time to create simialr controls with Visilogic, whereas these are just "drop in".
Thanks,
Damian
List Indicator:
The list indicator displays a list of states for a process or operation, and highlights the
current state.
Each state is represented by a caption in the list. This type of indicator is useful if you
want operators to view the current state, but also see the other possible states.
For sequential processes, the list can inform the operator about what happens next.
The list indicator has no error state. If the value of the Indicator connection does not
match any of the available states, none of the states is highlighted.
Control List Indicator:Control list selectors allow an operator to scroll through a list of states for a process and
select one of the states. A highlight in the list shows the current state.
A control list selector can show several states at the same time, but only one state can be
selected at a time. As the operator scrolls through the list, each successive state is selected
automatically. If you want the operator to confirm the selection of a particular state before
the state’s value is written to the programmable controller, create an enter button on the
same display as the control list selector, and select the “Write on enter” option.
The operator can scroll through the control list selector using:
- key button graphic objects. These are graphic objects that duplicate the functions of keyboard keys.
- the arrow keys and Enter key on a terminal’s keypad.
- the arrow keys and Enter key on a keyboard.
Using buttons with the control list selector
The operator presses the buttons to scroll up or down the list, or to make selections from
the list. The buttons can be set up to work with the control list selector that has input
focus, or you can link the buttons to a specific control list selector.
Piloted Control List Indicators:
Piloted control list selectors allow an operator or remote device to scroll through a list of
states for a process and select one of the states. A highlight in the list shows the current
state.
Choosing between piloted control list selectors and control
list selectors
Piloted control list selectors include the following features that control list selectors do
not:
- The states can be selected either by an operator, or remotely, for example by a programmable controller, or by both an operator and a remote device. Individual states can be turned off, to prevent them from being selected by either the operator or the remote device. Control list selectors do not allow states to be turned off.
- The state values of all of the items that are visible in the list can be written to the Visible States connection when the list scrolls. The Visible States connection must be a data-server tag that supports arrays. You cannot use an HMI tag. Control list selectors have no Visible States connection.
- The state value of the item at the top of the list can be written to the Top Position connection when the list scrolls. Control list selectors have no Top Position connection.
How piloted control list selectors work at run time
A piloted control list selector can show several states at the same time, but only one state
can be selected at a time.
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Fonts Handler
Click "Add new Font"
Click "Show more Fonts"
I'm confused as to what this is actualy doing. It doesn't seem as if I can actually select any more fonts.
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Hi Damian,
I presume you know about the ASCII String HMI variable type, which does just take a starting operand and a length? (also requires an update bit to be set when you want the string to change)
Hi Simon,
Yes, I do. I could have taken that approach as well. But what I really wanted to do was have a static table of data and just change a pointer value. Using the "Ascii String" forces me instead to move all the data to align with it.
Kind of like holding a light bulb up to a socket and rotating the house to screw it in. If "Ascii String" also had a selection for offset that I could have assigned an operand that would have worked just fine. At any rate, thank you for the suggestion.What I really need is a hybrid of the List of Text by pointer and Ascii text.
Damian
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Why does visilogic force all string data through the String libraries? Why I can't simply plop down a text display, give it a starting operand address, and a length? Inserting variable text fields into the string libraries is extrmemly cumbersome when you have many to do it is very inefficient.
Then, when viewing variable text fields in the string library config, it displays them all as "11111111111111111" I have to click on each an every one of them just to see what the heck is in there. I have over a hundred of them. Why would it not be displaying my address assignment instead? Not to mention that "1"s are the worst text placeholder to use in the first place since the represent the best case scenario regarding field width, when instead a "W" would at least serve that function.
And then to make matters even worse, after I click on the "11111111111111111111" to see what is inside, a window pops up with .............. you guessed it, another field of "111111111111111111111111111111" that I have to click on yet again just to figure out what the operand assigment is. [Yes, at this stage if i mouse over the "1111111111111" field with my cursor and count to two Missisipi in my head a tool tip will pop up that will indicate the assigned variable as well, but is actually quicker just to double click and forgo the wait.]
And then, if I have to alter the operand, I have to click on it AGAIN, and yet another window pops up so that I can actually select an operand.
I am now 4 windows deep just to assign one operand. I had to go 3 deep just to see what was in there.
Now I have to hit OK three times just to get back to the Config list.
That's a total of 8 clicks just to get to the operand and back, and that doesn't include the actual selecting of the operand or any other selections.
Now, try doing that 99 more times.
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Visilogic really needs to have a canned scrolling list function. This is a staple in most other HMI softwares. It takes WAY too much time to have to develop your own, especially when dealing with strings that are sourced from a Data Table. And then, the bulk of your program is something that has very little to do with your application. So I am wasting processor resources and operand memory just to juggle memory around.
An on the point of Data table, Why is reading a colum of strings not supported? Or bytes or bools for that matter?
The data table function should also let you choose whether to truncate or not when writing 32 bit data into 16 bit registers. This gets back to the whole memory structure issue. 32 bits of data are 32 bits of data. It doesn't matter if you are using it bitwise, bytewise, integer wise, etc, nor if you are interpretting it as signed or floating point,. It is an unecessary restriction. The software should use a collection of bits based on the context of how you reference it in your program.
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The alarm system refuses to use the correct string library for displaying alarms.
The correct library is very clearly chosen in the Alarm setup screen, and it even shows the specific text that was chosen; but as soon as I download and run it reverts to the wrong string library.
This is a V570 with Visi 9.0.3 and whatever the most recent OS is.
Never mind, I figured it out.
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The alarm system refuses to use the correct string library for displaying alarms.
The correct library is very clearly chosen in the Alarm setup screen, and it even shows the specific text that was chosen; but as soon as I download and run it reverts to the wrong string library.
This is a V570 with Visi 9.0.3 and whatever the most recent OS is.
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Hi,
There is no option to change the hardware configuration via touch screen or ladder.
Please send mail with the request to support@unitronics.com for evaluating your request.
This is something that definitely should be selectable at runtime. I run into the same problem. Some customers like K t/cs and others like J's. It is silly to have to maintain multiple program versions that would be otherwise identical just to select the Type of TC being used.
My guess is the reason it was not done this way is because the program only compiles with the curve tables that are selected at design time, as opposed to downloading all the curve tables even if you don't need them. Instead, maybe we should be able to select which curve tables we want to make available.
Even making 4-20mA and 0-10v should not be an issue. Yes, it requires setting jumpers. But so what. Any half way decent electrician could handle setting jumpers on a new unit.
Also keep in mind, I can buy a dedicated heat controller for next to nothing, and It has been over a decade since I have seen one that does not allow you to configure the T/C type used. It's not cutting technology. The price and capability of the unitronics PLC's makes them well suited to creating Universal Multi-Zone Temp/Process controllers, but many of the decisions that were made in software (ie. inability to select type of T/C at runtime, inability to select parameters like the # of stages in Auto Tune, Inability to select output type mA/V) all detract from it.
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I have a situation where I have objects on a screen selected as transparent that "appear" transparent in "Design Time", but are not transparent on the HMI.
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When I set something to "Transparent", Instead of actually being transparent it assumes the background color of the screen.
This is a problem because it is common for us to want to put controls on Frame objects. Therefore we would expect the object on top of a frame that has "tranparency" to show the frame behind it. Instead it blocks it out using the screen background color.
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I realize that this is not strictly a PLC question, but we have some awfully experienced people here that might be able to keep me out of trouble. I have a customer that uses an extremely low range "guage" pressure transducer +/- 30" WC (or +/- .0294 Bar) used to control a process with operating control points between (-0.5) to 6" WC. Because this sensor is so low in range as you might imagine there is a real and ever present possibility to change the Zero point of the pressure transducer from process realities that permenantly deform the sensing disk of the sensor. The customer want the ability to place this sensor into atmosperic conditions and call whatever the sensor sees as the zero position.
The way I look at it I have a choice. Since I am making calculations to put the sensors raw values into engineering values, I can either shift the high and low ranges of the sensor depending on the zero up front or I can wait till the end of the calculation and then just make a positive or negative shift to make it show zero on screen and use this shifted value to also be what the program looks at to make the control decisions.
What I am looking for is if anyone has done this, what are the pit-falls (if any) do you see to doing the zeroing either way, or am I looking at this all wrong and need to rethink how to do the function in general?
I am thinking that if I do it at the end I can write in a comparision of the total shift to what zero should be and then I can prevent the user from using what is effectively a broken sensor by only allowing a maximum shift from where the zero point should be, but I do not want to creat new problems.
Comments would be much appreciated.
Thank you in advance
Keith
I would use option 2 (shifting after the fact). It is probably the least amount of code, and won't goof up your scaling. It also, as you stated, gives you a good baseline in regards to deviation from calibrated zero.
That is a pretty typical method of "Taring" your reading.
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Hello,
I don't have the means to measure frequency or waveform.
Excitation is AC
I am viewing the value on the HMI only. AC Voltage reading between +SG and +E is 2.4 V with or without load, same goes for -SG and -E. If measured as DC it oscillates between -5 mV and 5 mV.
AC power is connected to a main switch then a fuse and then it goes into the power supply.
The power supply is a Weidmuller CP SNT 70W 24V 3A. There is a fuse and then the EX-A1, then both IO-LC1's and then the PLC. (Daisy chained with 20AWG 600 V plastic coated copper wire).
Only AC is grounded at the main switch.
The distance between the loadcell and LC1 is less than 3 feet, the loadcells cable was not modified at all. It is a 4 wire cable, connected according to the LC1's wiring diagram for 4 cable loadcells.
The power supply does not source anything other than what has been mentioned above.
Tracking band, range and motion band were adjusted on the computer and fed to the PLC. The function is not present on the file I uploaded but they were located on the Loadcell calibration subroutine that is activated when you press the F1 key on the PLC and the HMI goes to the Loadcell calibration screen.
I am located inside an empty warehouse, there are no engines, fluorescent lights, leds or anything that could cause interference. The power lines are only feeding this system right now, everything else has been disconnected. There is a 1HP water pump connected to the system but it is currently off.
I am measuring thousandths of grams 000.000 up to 150 grams. The loadcell has been calibrated with 4 points. (0 grams, 10.6 grams, 18.9 grams and 143.9 grams) All weights were measured with lab equipment.
Their weights remain more or less stable but the rightmost digit has the variation. If I reduce the number of digits, the variation moves to whatever the rightmost digit is. I tried rounding it, but the last digit remains constant and the next digit to its left inherits the variation.
My personal guess was that the oscillation is due to the small mV variations that exist around the zero so I wanted to give the auto zero tracking function a try, but unfortunately I can't get it to work.
Please bare with me, this is my first PLC project and I have read, studied, learned and re-read almost everything there is to Unitronics regarding this subject.
Thank you.
Your comment about the oscillation in the rightmost digit regarless of your resolution does sound a bit flakey. I have an LC1 module and V130 here. When I get a chance I'll download your program and see if I can't duplicate the phenomena.
D
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We were able to simulate the problem here. Our R&D repaired it. We expect to issue the improvement with the comming very soon VisiLogic V9.3.1 and comming with it OS.
Meantime - very simple temporary workaround - set PID output range to 998 (with 999 the problem still occure). I guess 0.2% of the power will not make any visible change in the system.
Anyway - very soon te fix will be realized.
Emil,
It can't come soon enough. I am just finishing up a couple multizone temperature control systems that will exhibit the same issue. Would be nice not to have to submit the program with the above patch.
Damian
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It's in Spanish. Here is the Post in English:
Friends, I need an example of communication between a V350 and a pc. I want to forward information from one table to be plotted in real time with vb6. I appreciate your help. regards
The comm driver from here
http://www.unitronics.com/Content.aspx?page=Downloads
comes with examples vor VB6
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Please explain in detail you oscillation.
What is the frequency and amplitude? Is it sinusoidal or random?
What type of excitation are you using?
Are you viewing just the value on the HMI, or are you looking at it with a scope?
What are you using as a power supply for the V130 and the LC1 module?
Gives details on how the power wiring was done between the expansion modules, the V130, and the power supply. What type of wire? Shieled? Twisted? Floating common? Daisy chained or both directly back to the power supply.
Distance between load cell and LC1?
Is the Power supply sourcing anything else?
Are you using and EX-A1 or EX-A2?
Where are you adjusting the tracking band, range, and motion band?
Are you in a lab setting or are you in an industrial environment that may have a lot of noise sources?
What degree of accuracy are you expecting?
The more info you give us the better the odds we can help.
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Hi,
Unitronics R&D fixed this issue and it will be ok with the next VisiLogic version (9.3.1).
hopefully next week.
Cheers,
Just to be clear, there are two issues here.
1) The proprietary navigation window restricts you from viewing all necessary locations.
2) The option for disabling the proprietary navigation window does not appear to work.
Which of these issues is fixed in the next rev?
Thanks,
D
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Hi Damian,
Visilogic 9.3.0 introduced this new Graphics Navigation panel.
http://www.unitronic...n%20Changes.htm
I must say I am not sure what advantages it offers. As soon as I encountered it, I had a similar experience to you and went in search of how to turn it off. Maybe it looked a little prettier once an image folder was in view, but the shortcomings in actually navigating to folders were more noticeable than any improvement.
See image below for details on how to turn it on/off (go to menu Project -> Properties)
Hi Simon,
Thanks for the info. I tried unchecking the image browser like you mention, but Visilogic continues to use it. Even re-booting Visilogic doesn't help. Have you tried navigating for an image since the time you unchecked it? Can you confirm that unchecking it actually had the desired effect?
Thanks again,
D
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I have found a few annoying quirk with the image selection routine in Visilogic.
First, it doesn't give you just a simple text box for which to enter a file path.
Second, I can't browse inside any folders on my "desktop". In fact, it doesn't even show the existence of subfolders on my desktop.
Thirdly, and most bizarre of all, it won't even allow me to navigate to my "Documents and Settings" folder right on my C drive.
Instead of just using the standard windows selection tools, it seems visilogic has programmed in some customized file selection windows that limits me from accessing things that should not be limited.
I find myself wasting a lot of time moving image files around to a place where Visilogic will allow me to access them.
What version of windows are you using? I wonder if it is related to that Navigation Panel thing that I could never get to disable.
Problem with Transparancy
in Vision & Samba PLC + HMI Controllers & VisiLogic Software
Posted
BUMP