Cannot access INFO-mode

[jalj]

I can't access Info Mode on one of my PLC's: The password is rejected.

The PLC starts and runs the installed program as expected.

I can access the PLC through Visilogic and verify that SI253 holds 1111. I can change that value but without practical effect.

Suggestions for how to remedy this?

 

System details:

Visilogic 9.8.91 Build 0. Updating is NOT possible.

PLC Firmware:

• V350-35-TRA22(B)
• O/S: 4.10 (48)
• BOOT: 2.2 (53)
• BinLib: 0-2.10 (04)
• FACTORY BOOT: 1.3 (15)

 

[Flex727]

It appears that the firmware (O/S) is a newer version than your project file was written for. Is this a new PLC? If not, how did the newer firmware get installed? If you do not wish to upgrade your VisiLogic version to 9.9.01, then run version 9.8.91 and update (actually downgrade) the O/S in the PLC with the file that came with that version of VisiLogic. That should solve your problem.

The reason for this problem is that in order to improve security with Unitronics Vision PLCs, after VisiLogic version 9.9 the INFO Mode can no longer be accessed with the previous default password of '1111'.

[jalj]

14 hours ago, Flex727 said:

It appears that the firmware (O/S) is a newer version than your project file was written for. Is this a new PLC? If not, how did the newer firmware get installed? If you do not wish to upgrade your VisiLogic version to 9.9.01, then run version 9.8.91 and update (actually downgrade) the O/S in the PLC with the file that came with that version of VisiLogic. That should solve your problem.

The FW was installed with Visilogic 9.8.91. The project was written in and installed with 9.8.91. The exact same installation, FWIW. Consequently; the current installed FW is the one that came with 9.8.91.

I just checked a different, newer, unupdated PLC. It has the exact same versions except FACTORY BOOT, which is 2.0 (01).

 

14 hours ago, Flex727 said:

The reason for this problem is that in order to improve security with Unitronics Vision PLCs, after VisiLogic version 9.9 the INFO Mode can no longer be accessed with the previous default password of '1111'.

Visilogic 9.9 has not been anywhere near this or any of our other PLCs. It is not installed anywhere in this company.

 

I have encountered this problem once or twice before on other PLCs – before 9.9.0 was released. Since that was on old PLCs from machines nearing the end of expected service life, I didn't want to invest to much of my rather sparse time in this issue. It has become adequately annoying now to warrant some effort.

 

[Flex727]

I don't have a V350 handy to check on the PLC itself, but when I look in the folder where the O/S file is stored under my 9.8.91 installation, I see several O/Ss available for the V350, as follows:

When I check my 9.9.01 installation, I see the following:

It certainly looks to me like you have a 9.9 OS, not a 9.8 OS. I have no explanation.

[jalj]

Weird. These are the contents of that directory on my box:

I notice that the mtime of *401048* is the same on both our boxen – and I believe it predates VL9.9. I'm not sure what to conclude from that, though.

Oh well; thanks for your time.

 

If the moderators that manually approve everything I post work for Unitronics, perhaps they'll ask around the office for ideas...

 

[Flex727]

Can you provide a little history? Where was this copy of VisiLogic obtained? When was the last time the firmware was updated on this PLC?

I still say if you downgrade your O/S to 400810, your problem will go away. You can manually select this O/S from VisiLogic.

VisiLogic will automatically default to the latest O/S (in that folder) when you update. If that 401048 file was there when the firmware was updated, then that will be defaulted to, whether that file was supposed to be there or not.

BTW, this is a USER forum - most of the moderators here (including me) are volunteers, not Unitronics employees. Unitronics employees do, however, venture in from time-to-time. All posts to this forum must be approved by a moderator, not just yours.

[Joe Tauser]

You can reach Unitronics directly by emailing the problem to support@unitronics.com

Joe T.

[Ausman]

Just adding to what Flex has said...

9 hours ago, jalj said:

If the moderators that manually approve everything I post work for Unitronics

We do not work for Unitronics.  We volunteer considerable amounts of our time.

Sometimes we feel the need to directly involve support@unitronics.com.  Other times forum members' advice/discussion is more suitable.

[jalj]

On 8/30/2024 at 3:54 PM, Flex727 said:

Can you provide a little history? Where was this copy of VisiLogic obtained? When was the last time the firmware was updated on this PLC?

Visilogic was downloaded from Unitronics' website.

I updated the FW on Thursday, 2024-08-29. I have no idea when, if ever, it was updated before then.

I installed the FW to reanimate the PLC: It showed "O/S Error" and wouldn't boot; the most I could get was a blue screen with a red square in the bottom right corner. (BTW, I'm quite sure I found a forum post by another user describing this situation, but neither my browser history nor my luck with the forum search function lets me retrieve that thread.)

 

 

On 8/30/2024 at 3:54 PM, Flex727 said:

I still say if you downgrade your O/S to 400810, your problem will go away. You can manually select this O/S from VisiLogic.

I just tried that. It didn't make a difference.

 

Just for the "fun" of it, I tried to install the oldest OS, I have access to (400730) – it is an old PLC, after  all. That caused a communication error after the erase step, so now it won't boot at all. Rescue attempt on 2 different PCs with 2 different USB-cables (yes, I tried all 4 combinations) gave the same result – communication error.

 

I'll probably look at it again later in the day when I've done some actually billable work, but for know I'm approaching the conclusion that it's just irreparably broken...

[Ausman]

Some other things to try....

1).  What windows version?

2).  Have you tried doing the link to the PC using the serial port and MJ10-22-CS25?  If your PC does not have a native serial port, any usb adapter must use a Prolific chip.  And have up to date drivers if you are on latest Windows.

3). Possible link to help:  https://forum.unitronics.com/topic/6069-vision-bricked-issues-and-how-to-resolve-originally-was-v570-57-t20b-j-bricked/

4).  I've attached the Os for a 350 from Visilogic 9.8.65, which might be of help to get things going again. You'll need to cut/paste a little into the relevant folder....Data > Os > Vision  Enhanced > V350

 

VCF00201004_V350.UOS VCB00200248_V350.UOS VCO00400481_V350.UOS VCO00400431_V350.UOS

[Flex727]

8 hours ago, jalj said:

Visilogic was downloaded from Unitronics' website.

Are you sure it was 9.8.91 that you downloaded? I wasn't aware that any version prior to 9.9 was available there.

[kratmel]

13 hours ago, jalj said:

I'm approaching the conclusion that it's just irreparably broken

it is possible to load OS via SD card clone function.

[jalj]

18 hours ago, Ausman said:

Some other things to try....

1).  What windows version?

Windows 10 Pro, 22H2, 19045.4780

 

18 hours ago, Ausman said:

2).  Have you tried doing the link to the PC using the serial port and MJ10-22-CS25?  If your PC does not have a native serial port, any usb adapter must use a Prolific chip.  And have up to date drivers if you are on latest Windows.

I'm using USB-cables. I believe these used to come with Unitronics PLCs. I'll check the provenance of the cables, when my colleague show up.

My PC does not have an RS232-port and I don't have that specific adapter. I'll try with the serial cable and USB-adapter I usually use on old V570s.

Drivers have been installed through Visilogic and are as up to date as Visilogic and Windows Update keep them. Is there a way to check version numbers?

 

18 hours ago, Ausman said:

3). Possible link to help:  https://forum.unitronics.com/topic/6069-vision-bricked-issues-and-how-to-resolve-originally-was-v570-57-t20b-j-bricked/

4).  I've attached the Os for a 350 from Visilogic 9.8.65, which might be of help to get things going again. You'll need to cut/paste a little into the relevant folder....Data > Os > Vision  Enhanced > V350

I believe I've conscientiously followed the steps outlined by BTR in that post. I'll step through it again to be certain.

Many thanks for the OS-files. It'll be interesting too see which, if any, version, the PLC is happy with.

 

 

 

 

[jalj]

14 hours ago, Flex727 said:

Are you sure it was 9.8.91 that you downloaded? I wasn't aware that any version prior to 9.9 was available there.

Quite sure. This is not a fresh installation of Visilogic.

[jalj]

9 hours ago, kratmel said:

it is possible to load OS via SD card clone function.

But that requires access to Info Mode to begin with – or is there some workaround for this, that I've missed?

At the moment, the PLC  gets stuck on the BOOT screen and shows "O/S Error". From there I can hold a finger on the screen to access Boot Mode, except that the password is rejected here as well.

[Ausman]

I need you to clarify something. 

When you did the OS update, is this completing and then you are encountering this error during reboot?  Or are you now referring to the O/S error showing whilst you are doing  the updates?

[jalj]

8 hours ago, Ausman said:

I need you to clarify something. 

When you did the OS update, is this completing and then you are encountering this error during reboot?  Or are you now referring to the O/S error showing whilst you are doing  the updates?

I tried to install the oldest OS I had access to then (400730). During installation, immediately after the "Erasing O/S Flash memory..."-step I got the usual communication error, that always pops up whenever something goes wrong in communication.

Following that, the PLC consistently stopped at the boot screen, whoing "O/S Error". Any renewed attempt at installing an OS lead to the same result: Communication error right after flash erase, and thus no actual installation taking place.

Notice how the previous sentence is written in the past tense? I just tried to go through the process again to grab some screenshots. Well, the OS was succesfully installed and the PLC happily goes into Run and runs the program. Same PC with the same VL installaton as yesterday; same USB-cable as yesterday. Still can't get into INFO.

I'll try to install some of the older OS-files you uploaded and see what happens...

[Ausman]

What you are describing is very close to the problem Windoze created for my PC's onboard serial port, by subtly changing drivers on me. (130s only have the serial port) I suspect that your "updating" issue isn't Visilogic related at all.  Perhaps worth exploring this by using older drivers if you can.

Always bear in mind that your usb cable might be sus.  You may have had it on the opposite side of the desk this time.  🙂   I'd be seriously trying another few cables if it happens again.

It shouldn't be making any difference, but have you checked the battery condition?

We look forward to the next installment...

[Ausman]

Or the PLC's usb connection has been damaged through rough insertions. 

All too easy to upset little usb sockets....and plugs....and cables..... with gorillas on the job now and then. 

[Ausman]

I again visited part of this overall issue just now, in part due to my "dog with a bone" brain.  Here are some findings:

I had a test 130 on the firmware in 9.9.0, installed using one laptop that uses W10 and was my test for 9.0.  Using 9.8.65 on my main PC running 22H2 with the native serial port, I tried to reload the firmware from 8.65 using the OS version check and then telling it what files to use etc.  No matter what I tried, the ASCII part of the comms fell over.  This included using the drivers I found for the native port that got comms going again after Windoze stuffed them up.  It also included me trialling a new USB adapter that uses the 2303GT Prolific chip, which is meant to be the bee knees across all Windoze.  Absolutely NO luck at all.

This was a deliberate part of the exercise.... "is it all related to Windows?"  I have 2 x X230 laptops, one runs 7Pro 64 and the other is 22H2, and both use my shentek 34mm express card for serial comms. 

I got out the W7 X230, which has been my mainstay during all my hassles.  9.8.65 is the only Visi version on this device.  Hooked into the test TR6, did the firmware check, told it what files to use, and away it went...straight through to Finish.  This points to some fundamental thing going on in Windows that isn't playing correctly in the latest versions...perhaps of both Windows and Visilogic.

Reboot and the plc is still running the "test all the wizzy new security" project I made ok, except.......

Used the main PC again and now I'm in ok on both the native port and the new adapter.  But I notice that even though my test program is registering the MB changes ok that I've got linked to SDW10 bits, the SDW10 count I've got up on the PLC screen isn't showing the relevant number.  Curiously the description of SDW10 has changed b/n versions.  In 8.65 it is Keypad entry variable value, and in 9.0 it is Deny PCOM Access Btimap. So the lack of firmware space has dictated a fundamental change, like we have suspected.

So jalj, I strongly suggest you try to get hold of a W7 system and use the serial port on that to do your trying with my firmwares.  I haven't any more time to see if other variations like using the shentek on the W10 X230 works ok, what Visi version works ok on what, blah blah, as all of this has now consumed 3 hours....sigh....which I didn't really have.....

cheers, Aus

[jalj]

I spend a good deal of time on this yesterday, installing different OS versions using two different PCs and a bunch of different USB-cables. I have been meticulous ininserting the cables properly and carefully. PC1 is my regular development workstation that I've used throughout this saga. PC2 is a laptop running Win10 Enterprise LTSC, 21H2, 19044.4780. Neither has a RS232 port.

The battery was ready for retirement: It only measured 2.8V.  I installed a fresh battery before I did anything else.

This is a summary of what i found:

Trying to install anything older than 400810 will consistently fail with a loss of communication during the erase step. This always happens at the same time (as shown by the progress bar), near but not at the end of erase.

Trying to install 400810 often but not always works on PC1. Never on PC2. Failure mode is as above.

Once the OS installation has failed, the PLC will not boot; rather it shows "O/S Error".

Rescuing the PLC requires rebooting the PLC with a finger on the screen to stop the boot attempt, then installing 401048 from PC1. This almost always works; chances of success appear higher if the PC is freshly rebooted. Rescuing the PLC from PC2 is impossible.

At no point was I able to access INFO mode: The password is always rejected.

I will have to look around the archives for a PC with an RS232 port for further experimentation, but right now I have to put this PLC on a shelf and get back to some of the paying projects. Thank you all for your input. I'll be sure to update this thread when I have something to write.

[Ausman]

Uhhmmmmm....you DID install Visilogic as admin, didn't you?  And check the installed.exe for run as admin ????

https://forum.unitronics.com/topic/7917-visilogic-doesnt-work-properly-after-installation-what-install-as-administrator-really-means/

And once you ARE back in ok, change the info password to any 4 numbers not the same.

[jalj]

14 minutes ago, Ausman said:

Uhhmmmmm....you DID install Visilogic as admin, didn't you?  And check the installed.exe for run as admin ????

https://forum.unitronics.com/topic/7917-visilogic-doesnt-work-properly-after-installation-what-install-as-administrator-really-means/

 

VL was installed as admin and usually works as expected. I just had a look at the compatibility properties of visilogic.exe and it is indeed set to run as admin.

[Ausman]

OK on all of that.  A sudden thought that maybe it was the reason for your issues.

As an aside, a topic often mentioned on the forum is how many members have older laptops with onboard serial, for the simple reason that so much quite young control gear encountered is STILL serial.  The various laptops I have all run older Windoze versions, right back to DOS.

We all have preferences, but Joe T likes Dell D830s.  Regardless of what you end up doing, getting an older laptop and running W7 is dirt cheap and will likely save a lot of headaches.  "We must have 'progress', and get rid of serial ports, completely forgetting that so much industry was built with serial a few (or more) years ago and is working perfectly."  Some of my stuff is well past a quarter of a century now.

cheers, Aus