TheDave2 Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Using a V1040, Quad core PC w/4G ram (Win7 all updates) and updating the V1040 via USB. I am just starting out so I have only 2 rungs of logic and a few items on one display screen. 1. Changing a coil or contact, downloading takes 20 seconds. Changing just the position of a item on the display screen takes 70 seconds to get the changes to the unit. I can only imagine how long the downloads will take when I develop a real program. Not having on-line editing in this day and age is unheard of. Why is this taking so long to send a trivial change ? Visilogix 9.3.0 comes no where near using any amount of my cpu power, maybe 25%. 2. If I put the plc in stop mode and single cycle it, any bar graphs disappear from the screen. They do come back when the plc is back to Run mode. 3. Clicking on a coil or contact brings up a window where I can SET the contact. When I do, the SET button changes to Reset. That's silly. There should always be two buttons, Set AND Reset. 4. Copy & Paste logic elements. The Pasted element is not put at where the mouse was clicked. It is put below and to the left, mostly. Sometimes to the right. 5. I have to click / drag / etc by the actual element symbol. I should be able to do operations when selecting the address box above it. Ok, that's about it. Thanks for reading. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flavien Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Using a V1040, Quad core PC w/4G ram (Win7 all updates) and updating the V1040 via USB. I am just starting out so I have only 2 rungs of logic and a few items on one display screen. 1. Changing a coil or contact, downloading takes 20 seconds. Changing just the position of a item on the display screen takes 70 seconds to get the changes to the unit. I can only imagine how long the downloads will take when I develop a real program. Not having on-line editing in this day and age is unheard of. Why is this taking so long to send a trivial change ? Visilogix 9.3.0 comes no where near using any amount of my cpu power, maybe 25%. I agree with this. This is so bad that we don't have at least a similar efficiency than with the V570... ! I really hope that UNITRONICS will make this a bit faster. Thanks to them again for keeping such good works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emil Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 I want to make some explanations: There are few types of Download of the enhanced contgrollers. In VisiLogic V9.30, one can find them when presses the downarrow right to Download icon. Or, of course, when goes to Connection menu > Download. If just "Download al land burn" selected, the controler rebuilds all the application, downloads it and burns it on Flash. This download produces backup copy of the application in case of RAM messed or battery failure. In other hand, a heavy project, with several MB for pictures only, can take several minutes to be downloaded. This is normal, as there is a big amount of information to flow. If only "Download" selected, VisiLogic compares the project to download with the one in the controller. The application is divided to DLU (Download units). In this download, only DLU with changes will be transferred. Even in very heavy project, if one coil/contact is changed in a small sub, it wil take few seconds to download the change - almost Download on line! The disadvantage of this Download way is, that there is no Upload and the project is only in RAM. This download is recommended during debug. At the end of the process anyway it's recommended ot perfomr the full download and burn. BTW - as I know, On Line programming on any PLC has te same limit - the changes are kept only in RAM. If not special care taken, in case of RAM falure for any reason, the project is gone or (I don't know if better or worst) - thhe previous version returns! In current VisiLogic version, if one picture is changed, this will request anyway re-download of all pictures, which can be quite time consuming procedure. We are aware of this problem and are working ot fix it. I hope you will feel the result on the next VisiLogic version... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDave2 Posted June 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 If only "Download" selected, VisiLogic compares the project to download with the one in the controller. Yes, only Download, (CTRL-D) not any other type. Still takes 13 seconds for some simple change. The application is divided to DLU (Download units). In this download, only DLU with changes will be transferred. Even in very heavy project, if one coil/contact is changed in a small sub, it wil take few seconds to download the change - almost Download on line! If it were only a few seconds, I would not complain. See above. The disadvantage of this Download way is, that there is no Upload and the project is only in RAM. This download is recommended during debug. At the end of the process anyway it's recommended ot perfomr the full download and burn. BTW - as I know, On Line programming on any PLC has te same limit - the changes are kept only in RAM. If not special care taken, in case of RAM falure for any reason, the project is gone or (I don't know if better or worst) - thhe previous version returns! For all plc's that I have programmed in the last 30+ years, this has NEVER been a problem. Only a few PLC's have a temp RAM area for on-line changes. Most do not and all on-line changes are incorporated directly into the whole program, which is kept in battery backed ram / eeprom or in very old plc's there was core (or plated wire) memory. In current VisiLogic version, if one picture is changed, this will request anyway re-download of all pictures, which can be quite time consuming procedure. We are aware of this problem and are working ot fix it. I hope you will feel the result on the next VisiLogic version... When will this be ? Due to this slowness, the hours for programming I have allocated for this project will be more than doubled. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVP 2023 Flex727 Posted June 28, 2011 MVP 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 I've been using Unitronics PLC and VisiLogic software for a couple of years now. While it lacks a few features we'd all like to have such as online editing, there is no better programming interface for ladder logic on the market, in my opinion. I'll try to answer your questions, if I may... 1. Changing a coil or contact, downloading takes 20 seconds. Changing just the position of a item on the display screen takes 70 seconds to get the changes to the unit. I can only imagine how long the downloads will take when I develop a real program. Not having on-line editing in this day and age is unheard of. Why is this taking so long to send a trivial change ? Visilogix 9.3.0 comes no where near using any amount of my cpu power, maybe 25%. >>In my experience, there is not a linear relationship between the size of the program and the download time. Larger programs will take a bit longer, but nothing like you are fearing. Make sure you are performing a straight download and not trying to do any sort of burn operation. Also, if you have ethernet connectivity you can speed things up a bit by downloading over ethernet. If you must use serial, make sure both the PLC and the VisiLogic software are set to communicate at 115k. 2. If I put the plc in stop mode and single cycle it, any bar graphs disappear from the screen. They do come back when the plc is back to Run mode. 3. Clicking on a coil or contact brings up a window where I can SET the contact. When I do, the SET button changes to Reset. That's silly. There should always be two buttons, Set AND Reset. >>I'm not sure why you think this. It makes no sense to Set a coil that is already on or Reset a coil that is off. My complaint is that forcing I/O requires a right-click, and is thus a two-step operation. 4. Copy & Paste logic elements. The Pasted element is not put at where the mouse was clicked. It is put below and to the left, mostly. Sometimes to the right. >>This is a feature rather than a bug, though most people don't like it. The pasted element goes in the same spot it came from and has nothing to do with where you mouse click. For HMI elements I usually create a scratch HMI display that is blank to paste elements, then I move them to the coordinates I want them, copy again and paste to the final location. When performing ladder element copy/paste it can be quite handy to have the element go to the exact same spot in every rung I paste it and I like that functionality there - though the spot must be empty or it will paste at the bottom of the rung. 5. I have to click / drag / etc by the actual element symbol. I should be able to do operations when selecting the address box above it. >>This is also a "feature". Each basic ladder element is composed of two parts and each part has separate functionality. The address box is for addressing and the element symbol is for moving, but it also lets you very conveniently change from a normally open contact to a normally closed, or a transition contact etc by simply right-clicking and selecting a new function. It also works with coils and certain other elements. The ability to drag and drop elements anywhere, not just within a ladder rung and the ability to change the element type on the fly are two of the handiest aspects of this software. Here is my top 3 list for improvements to VisiLogic: 1) Ability to open two programs at once to allow copy and paste between them. 2) A simulator to allow program testing without the need for a physical PLC. 3) Online editing capability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emil Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Small tip: Downloading via SD card is much faster thhan via serial/Ethernet. Of course this is not for "on line programming"/editing, but can be quite useful when initial downloading a big project or there is a need ot download the same project to more than one PLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Emil, Will downloading over Ethernet be noticebly fast than downloading over USB to the V1040? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
External Moderators Ash Neilson Posted June 29, 2011 External Moderators Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Damian, With the current Hardware, downloading over Ethernet works out to be almost 2x as fast (not quite its more like 1.7x). The USB onboard the V1040 is really just a USB to Serial Adaptor built into the PLC so the Download Speeds are basically the same as downloading to a Standard PLC Serial Port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Damian, With the current Hardware, downloading over Ethernet works out to be almost 2x as fast (not quite its more like 1.7x). The USB onboard the V1040 is really just a USB to Serial Adaptor built into the PLC so the Download Speeds are basically the same as downloading to a Standard PLC Serial Port. Ash ................. Thanks a bunch. that is great information! I guess though I am also dissapointed that they did the USB that way. I have been waiting for the USB connection for download largely because of a desired speed benefit. It is like getting a chocolate chip cookie without the chocolate chips.. thanks, Damian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDave2 Posted June 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 I've been using Unitronics PLC and VisiLogic software for a couple of years now. While it lacks a few features we'd all like to have such as online editing, there is no better programming interface for ladder logic on the market, in my opinion. I'll try to answer your questions, if I may... Sorry. It is clunky and non-standard. When it took me 10 minutes to find out there is no timer element ... Every time I put a simple element (N..O.) on screen then I have to tab away from the 'MI' type field to enter the element #, and no context sensitive help ... Only about 22 characters of instruction comment displayed. Now no system is perfect. But it is the simple things that are used every day that must be implemented for fast & ease of use. 1. Changing a coil or contact, downloading takes 20 seconds. Changing just the position of a item on the display screen takes 70 seconds to get the changes to the unit. I can only imagine how long the downloads will take when I develop a real program. Not having on-line editing in this day and age is unheard of. Why is this taking so long to send a trivial change ? Visilogix 9.3.0 comes no where near using any amount of my cpu power, maybe 25%. >>In my experience, there is not a linear relationship between the size of the program and the download time. Larger programs will take a bit longer, but nothing like you are fearing. Make sure you are performing a straight download and not trying to do any sort of burn operation. Also, if you have ethernet connectivity you can speed things up a bit by downloading over ethernet. If you must use serial, make sure both the PLC and the VisiLogic software are set to communicate at 115k. There is no Ethernet on this unit. I am using USB. All baud rates are at the highest. As I have said before, it is a straight download. No Compile. No Burn. 2. If I put the plc in stop mode and single cycle it, any bar graphs disappear from the screen. They do come back when the plc is back to Run mode. 3. Clicking on a coil or contact brings up a window where I can SET the contact. When I do, the SET button changes to Reset. That's silly. There should always be two buttons, Set AND Reset. >>I'm not sure why you think this. It makes no sense to Set a coil that is already on or Reset a coil that is off. My complaint is that forcing I/O requires a right-click, and is thus a two-step operation. It makes perfect sense given that you actually don't know if the coil is set or reset as it is scanned. Having only one button as a toggle is never even allowed in the real world for machine inputs. I would be in favor of three screen buttons: On / Off / Toggle. And speaking of forced I/O ... none that I see. 4. Copy & Paste logic elements. The Pasted element is not put at where the mouse was clicked. It is put below and to the left, mostly. Sometimes to the right. >>This is a feature rather than a bug, though most people don't like it. The pasted element goes in the same spot it came from and has nothing to do with where you mouse click. For HMI elements I usually create a scratch HMI display that is blank to paste elements, then I move them to the coordinates I want them, copy again and paste to the final location. When performing ladder element copy/paste it can be quite handy to have the element go to the exact same spot in every rung I paste it and I like that functionality there - though the spot must be empty or it will paste at the bottom of the rung. If most people don' t like it, then it should be changed. Elements should be inserted when pasted. 5. I have to click / drag / etc by the actual element symbol. I should be able to do operations when selecting the address box above it. >>This is also a "feature". Each basic ladder element is composed of two parts and each part has separate functionality. The address box is for addressing and the element symbol is for moving, but it also lets you very conveniently change from a normally open contact to a normally closed, or a transition contact etc by simply right-clicking and selecting a new function. It also works with coils and certain other elements. The ability to drag and drop elements anywhere, not just within a ladder rung and the ability to change the element type on the fly are two of the handiest aspects of this software. Again, more unwanted 'features'. Let me just drag it, be the initial click anywhere. Double click anywhere to bring up the editing box. Right click anywhere to bring up all options. Here is my top 3 list for improvements to VisiLogic: 1) Ability to open two programs at once to allow copy and paste between them. 2) A simulator to allow program testing without the need for a physical PLC. 3) Online editing capability. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panagiwtis Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Here is my top 3 list for improvements to VisiLogic: 1) Ability to open two programs at once to allow copy and paste between them. 2) A simulator to allow program testing without the need for a physical PLC. 3) Online editing capability. Couldn't agree more, definitely these are the top 3 disadvantages of Visilogic. No change, even in one of them till today about three years later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cara Bereck Levy Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Hi :-) I wanted to mention that VisiLogic is a fairly mature product. While we certainly add features, major additions are not expected. The focus of our software development is our new UniStream IDE. Regarding your first two points: - This is not officially recommended, but you can install VisiLogic in two separate directories in order to open 2 instances of the program. While this enables you to visually compare the programs, you cannot copy & paste. The best I can offer is to export and import ladder routines and displays. (ok, it's rather lame...but it may be helpful) - There is a simulator offered by an independent developer in our PLC Market. Note that this is not a Unitronics product. Check it out here:http://www.plc-apps.com/collections/apps-for-pc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now