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PaulK

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Posts posted by PaulK

  1. Vision 570 Stop Mode Fatal Error

    in Vision & Samba PLC + HMI Controllers & VisiLogic Software

    Posted

    Hi Aus, thanks for the support.

    Yes, when the coil is de-energized,  a short time after (instant to 10 minutes) the PLC goes "Roy Munson" (that is a Kingpin movie reference).

    Correct, this panel was designed and built without regard to best practices, standards, noise, guidelines, solar flares or silk underwear. 

    I have been doing software exclusively for a while (how the cards were dealt), and I know a tiny bit about electrical from just working in this field for 25 years.  I can not count all of the things I would have done differently in this panel...some of it is just common sense.

    Thanks again, I will update when I have more feedback.

  3. Vision 570 Stop Mode Fatal Error

    in Vision & Samba PLC + HMI Controllers & VisiLogic Software

    Posted

    Hello - So the noise is coming from a 24VDC valve solenoid coil. The coil is being energized directly off of the Snap IO output (I didn't design this).

    Question - I am not an electronics type, more software.

    So options...

    Opto Relay?

    Solid State Relay?

    Diode Snubber Circuit?

    I would like to test with a Diode, has anyone used this method, and if you did, which type of diode was selected?

    Thank you!

     

    Paul

     

    p.s. - I am sick to my stomach over this. Work, make mistakes and learn,

     

  4. Vision 570 Stop Mode Fatal Error

    in Vision & Samba PLC + HMI Controllers & VisiLogic Software

    Posted

    Thanks Flex727 - no, I didn't add any tape or screw it down.

    I rerouted some IO away from 575 and motor leads, after doing that the results were dramatic, I went from a fault every 15 minutes to one fault after 14 days.

    I am ordering a new Snap IO Module and V570, was talking to Micheal from Unitronics just now, and the thought was that the unit could be degraded from all the previous noise exposure.

    It is probably a long shot, but something we are going to do.

    I am also going to be probing for noise as well at checking all grounding.

    One last item to try was to float the 24VDC power supply from earth ground.

    With the new unit, I will tape where I can to keep the Snap IO fixed to the V570. The current snap IO module is very secure and snug with the V570, but I will try what you recommend.

    Problem is, if it is only happening every two weeks, and I change more than one thing at a time, then I will not know with certainty what corrected this issue.

  6. Vision 570 Stop Mode Fatal Error

    in Vision & Samba PLC + HMI Controllers & VisiLogic Software

    Posted

    I want to thank everyone who responded... Thank you!

    I fixed the issue within 90 minutes.

    1. The digital IO to and from the drive (Run Command and Drive Faulted) were tie-wrapped to the 575 VFD Line Supply.
    2. They had installed Line Reactor  beside the 24 VDC power supply (yes, un-shielded motor leads up and out of the control panel)
    3. Shields on twisted pair cabled had been snipped off, so there was no drain connection to ground.
    • I ran new digital IO wired and connected the drains at one end to ground
    • The new digital IO wired crossed the 575 at 90 degrees, and I made sure the IO was spaced away from the 575 and the motor leads
    • I removed the Line Reactor

    Problem solved...I hope.

    The system has been running for 48 hours, previous to this it would only stay up for 15 minutes...looks promising.

    This was not following wiring fundamentals 101.

    Best regards,

     

    Paul

  8. Vision 570 Stop Mode Fatal Error

    in Vision & Samba PLC + HMI Controllers & VisiLogic Software

    Posted

    16 hours ago, Ausman said:

    It would perhaps be a good exercise to log the speed of the VFD somehow.  With the plc getting the fatal error I don't know whether doing it into MIs will be held for perusal on cranking it up again, though. But my thinking is that perhaps a particular speed is causing Flex's vibration, or the other thoughts about noise.  I routinely wiggle-then-re-gaffer-tape snapins I use, just to keep contacts working ok.  Screws sound good.

    Lots of possibilities here, look forward to the solutions!  You're going to have soooo muuuuch funnnnn!

    cheers,

    Aus

    Thanks Aus, I really do love a good challenge.

  20. Vision 570 Stop Mode Fatal Error

    in Vision & Samba PLC + HMI Controllers & VisiLogic Software

    Posted

    4 minutes ago, Ausman said:

     

    We only get the Stop Error when the Grundfos VFD starts, so I am 99.9% sure this is VFD noise causing the Stop Error.

    I am not exactly sure where they ran the expansion cable, but I will find out on Monday when I get to site. If it is running anywhere new VFD or power cables I will space it out.

    I have a fuke 125B scope, so I will be probing for noise on all the snap IO and basically all the connections to the 570.

    I hate plastic enclosures as well, they have no place here, again, cards I was dealt.

    I will post some more pictures....

     

    Yes, Weg motor is VFD rated, 0 turn down.

     

  21. Vision 570 Stop Mode Fatal Error

    in Vision & Samba PLC + HMI Controllers & VisiLogic Software

    Posted

    11 hours ago, Joe Tauser said:

    You're on the right track, but zener diodes are not the answer.  You need something to filter out the frequencies the VFD is generating.  I did a retrofit project once where the customer pulled all their wires in same conduit - VFD controlled motors and 24V I/O.

    I put a scope on all the points on the PLC and found large 4KHz noise on all the inputs, which will put the PLC into crazy mode.

    My solution was to put an external 0.1 uF capacitor on each I/O point to ground.  Inputs and outputs.  Unitronics does not build filters into their modules.  Looked like crap, but it knocked the noise down enough for the system to run.

    If you have a scope, poke around with it and see what you can find.

    Joe T.

    Thanks so much Joe.

     

    I am going to site with a Fluke on Monday.

     

    I am also going to Sayal to pick up some 0.1uF caps.

     

    So basically put the cap between each digital IO point and ground if I see noise on those wires?

     

    I also am using some analog...and suggestions for that?

     

    THanks again Joe!!!

  22. Vision 570 Stop Mode Fatal Error

    in Vision & Samba PLC + HMI Controllers & VisiLogic Software

    Posted

    15 hours ago, Ausman said:

    Is the VFD, or any of it's controlling contactors etc apart from signal switching, in any plc component enclosure at all?   Where's the expansion cable running?

    Aus

    Thanks for taking the time to reply Aus!

    The PLC is in its own Enclosure.

    The VFD is a Grundfos/Danfoss IP67 Skid mounted unit outside the control panel.

    Please see attached picture.

    I do not like plastic enclosures, but these are the cards I was dealt.

    20170315_153104.jpg

    20170315_153115.jpg

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