Flex727
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Posts posted by Flex727
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I've been poking around in Windows 7 and found the problem. In the Display settings there is a setting for text size. This, of course, is not new to Win7, but at least on my computer, it defaults to "Medium - 125%" instead of 100%. this had the effect of increasing the font size in Visilogic. I hadn't checked this because I had never changed it and assumed the default would be normal size rather than larger - stupid me. This may also have an impact on the delay times when moving or deselecting HMI elements - I'll check and report back.
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As I said, I'll send an email to support, but here is the screenshot for those interested. The left side was taken from my WinXP desktop PC running Visilogic 8.6.3 with a screen resolution of 1280x1024, the right side is from my laptop running Win7, Visilogic 9.4.0 and a screen resolution of 1920x1080. I think it's clear why this is a problem.
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Thanks, I'll do that. But how about the simple question about how many lines of text are displayed in the operand description box? My desktop computer runs WinXP and Visilogic 8.6.3 with a screen resolution of 1280x1024 and I get 3 lines in the operand description box. My laptop runs Win7 and Visilogic 9.4.0 with a screen resolution of 1920x1080 and I only get 2 lines. What determines this? This is a very simple basic question that someone at Unitronics should have an instant answer for, at least it would seem to me.
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Thanks, Damian. I thought I had seen at least one previous post on this, but was unsuccessful in searching for it.
Unitronics Technical Support: Is this a known problem? Do you have any suggested solutions, or is this just a conflict with certain computers that is too rare to spend any time on to correct? How about the issue of only 2 lines displayed in the operand description box? Anything I can do about that? Thanks.
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Unfortunately I've made two changes simultaneously and I don't know what is the culprit. I had to replace my laptop - the old one was a Win XP, 32-bit, that was several years old, running Visilogic 8.6.3. My new one is Win7, 64-bit. I'm now running 9.4.0 and editing HMI screens in Visilogic is excruciating. Granted, it certainly wasn't a speed demon before, but every time I click to select or deselect an object on an HMI screen can take several long seconds before I get the cursor back. If I have several objects selected at once it can take 10 or 20 seconds or more just move them one pixel, depending on the complexity of the objects. This new laptop is fully decked out with the second gen Intel Core i5, 8GB Ram, etc. It is FAST with every other piece of software I own. Noticeably faster than the previous laptop, but not with Visilogic. Any suggestions on what is slowing things down? I've got to get this fixed to get my productivity back to where it needs to be. Yes, I have disabled UAC.
Another problem is that the operand descriptions in the box in the ladder section are only two lines (the address, e.g. MB50, plus one line of the description). Before, I had three lines total - the address plus two lines of description. Is there a way to control this? It's extremely frustrating to have to hover over every operand to figure out what it is.
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We are thinking about idea of simulator.
Emil, users have been BEGGING for this, along with online edits, for many years now. Do you think the idea of a simulator will advance from the "thinking" stage to the "planning" stage anytime soon?
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Thanks, Simon. I'll check that stuff out when I go back to that customer site. I did offer them another option to repair their problem and if they don't want to avail themselves of that option, I'll have to return for further troubleshooting.
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Sorry for the delayed response. I appreciate the help. Here are the answers to Simon's questions:
I think it is time to check that all wiring and configuration settings are 100% correct. Which I/O module are you using?Wiring and setting appear to be correct. I/O modules being used are:
EX-D16A3-TO16
IO-D16A3-RO16
IO-D16A3-RO16
IO-DI16
What numbered outputs are working correctly?All the outputs work correctly when following the ladder logic in run mode. We had what appeared to be a failed relay that I wanted to troubleshoot. It was connected to the first I/O module and was the only output being used on that module. That module had a bunch of inputs and the other modules were also mostly fully utilized with both inputs and outputs. My intent was to connect the relay to another I/O module with an unused output and then see if I could force it on and off while online with the PLC.
Have you tried forcing some other outputs?Yes, I tried several and got the same results with each. When an output showed "0", I would force the output to "SET", the glasses display would change to "0<1>", but the I/O module corresponding output would not be lit and the force pushbutton would still display that the output was off. If I forced the output back to zero ("RESET"), the glasses display remained the same: "0<1>".
As a side note, if you select an unused output you can toggle it's value just with the normal set/reset functions, there is no need to use "force".I don't really understand this. An unused output has no coil in the ladder logic to set/reset (I do NOT want to add the coil and download the change to the PLC). Or perhaps we're just talking past each other - when I say "force", I am referring to the little box that pops up with the state of an operand when it is clicked in the ladder or in the operands section at the bottom of VisiLogic when online with the PLC. For regular operands (MBs), if the bit is off the pushbutton will say "SET" and when it is on the pushbutton will say "RESET". For Inputs and Outputs the pushbutton will say the same thing but it is "greyed out" and you have to right-click to select "SET" or "RESET" to force the Input or Output one way or the other.
By the way, forcing inputs this way works perfectly, but outputs give me the result I describe above.
Bottom line, what I need to understand is, am I correct in my understanding that I SHOULD be able to force an Output in the manner I'm describing? If so, what should I be looking at to try to understand why it does not work the way it should.
Thanks!
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Just bumping this topic, as I'm sure there's a simple answer. What does "0<1>" mean in the online display of an output after I've attempted to FORCE it ON? And why can I not FORCE an Output when I'm online with a v570 PLC?
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I just attempted to FORCE a digital output using a v570 connected to an I/O module. The output I selected was an unused output and thus had no ladder logic associated with it. While online with the PLC, I selected the output and then right-clicked on the Set/Reset button to select SET. The output would not turn on and the display in the eyeglasses column changed from 0 (zero) to this: 0<1>. What is the meaning of that display and why can't I Force an output?
By the way, the I/O module was clearly functioning as it had other outputs connected and they were operating properly according to the ladder logic turning them on and off.
The Help function had very little information, but did have a diagram which clearly showed forcing an Output. While writing software for the v570, I frequently need to force INPUTS and do so all the time with no issue, but this is the first time I've had occasion to need to force an OUTPUT. Is there something different about Outputs?
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Thank you, Ofir. I think I've found the problem and it is mine, not Unitronics'. If I change the IP addresses on the PLC and laptop to 192.168.1.xxx, I can connect easily. Something in my laptop is acting as a firewall and preventing connection outside the range of 192.168.1.xxx addresses. I am not actually running a firewall program on my laptop that I know of, not even the built-in Windows firewall, however, I'm having trouble tracking down the source. Anyone have a suggestion for how to proceed to troubleshoot this kind of issue on a WinXP laptop?
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I love Unitronics PLCs, but I am constantly having a problem getting my laptop to connect to a v570 via ethernet. It always fails to connect the first time and I usually putz around with it for a few days and finally get it to work, after much lost time. Here is my situation:
Using WinXP on the laptop and VisiLogic 8.6.3 (I know this isn't the latest version, but I am often working with installed systems and I want to maintain continuity).
I can connect every time with a serial cable.
I can ping the PLC every time.
I assign a PLC name & port number and confirm them in the communications settings.
As far as I know, these are the things I need to be able to communicate via ethernet:
PLC IP address
PLC name
PLC port number
Compatible, non-conflicting IP address assigned to the laptop
Crossover cable when connecting directly, or straight cable when connecting through a hub
TCP/IP card & socket initialization and PLC name in ladder using SB2
My problem is I have a PLC in the field that I will need to connect to via ethernet. Sometimes I do some updating and troubleshooting with a new PLC here in my office. I open the box, install the ethernet card, confirm functionality of the card, and download the program with a serial cable. At this point the PLC has the assigned IP address, card & socket initialization, and PLC name, exactly like the one in the field. I remove the serial cable, change the communication setup back to TCP/IP Call, confirm that VisiLogic has the correct IP address, PLC name, and socket number that matches the PLC, and try to connect. No go - I get the Communication Driver Error box (Communication over TCP/IP could not be established due to one of the following: etc, etc)
Now I know there is nothing wrong with the ladder logic, as I have connected to a PLC with this same installed program many times before. I check the laptop IP address and the first 3 octets are the same as the PLC (I'm using 10.1.1). I can ping the PLC without error. I have the laptop wireless turned off and there are no other computers on this mini network.
This kind of thing drives me crazy - it shouldn't be this difficult. What am I missing?
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I have often had a similar problem. If there is a large number of elements on the HMI screen, VisiLogic will sometimes "forget" the transparency of some of them. I can go back and re-set the transparency property and it will stay that way for awhile and then "forget" again. As far as I can tell, this is all happening in VisiLogic - if I download after re-setting they stay set on the PLC, but next time I open the project in VisiLogic they're lost again. Make sure you check the elements in VisiLogic after every change to the project before you download to the PLC.
By the way, this experience is based on a v570 with VisiLogic 8.6.3. The problem may be fixed in version 9.
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I have a customer request to be able to send a page from a v570 to notify them when an alarm occurs. What is the best way for me to do this and what additional hardware do I need? Any issues or pitfalls?
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Just a few suggestions:
1) Make sure the coil is not duplicated elsewhere in your project.
2) Make sure the subroutine the coil is in is being called by the Main routine.
3) Make sure the ladder rung is not disabled.
4) You can't make online edits, be sure to re-download the project to the PLC after your change.
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Double-click on the binary text object, not right-click.
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I've been using Unitronics PLC and VisiLogic software for a couple of years now. While it lacks a few features we'd all like to have such as online editing, there is no better programming interface for ladder logic on the market, in my opinion. I'll try to answer your questions, if I may...
1. Changing a coil or contact, downloading takes 20 seconds. Changing just the position of a item on the display screen takes 70 seconds to get the changes to the unit. I can only imagine how long the downloads will take when I develop a real program. Not having on-line editing in this day and age is unheard of.
Why is this taking so long to send a trivial change ? Visilogix 9.3.0 comes no where near using any amount of my cpu power, maybe 25%.
>>In my experience, there is not a linear relationship between the size of the program and the download time. Larger programs will take a bit longer, but nothing like you are fearing. Make sure you are performing a straight download and not trying to do any sort of burn operation. Also, if you have ethernet connectivity you can speed things up a bit by downloading over ethernet. If you must use serial, make sure both the PLC and the VisiLogic software are set to communicate at 115k.
2. If I put the plc in stop mode and single cycle it, any bar graphs disappear from the screen. They do come back when the plc is back to Run mode.
3. Clicking on a coil or contact brings up a window where I can SET the contact. When I do, the SET button changes to Reset. That's silly. There should always be two buttons, Set AND Reset.
>>I'm not sure why you think this. It makes no sense to Set a coil that is already on or Reset a coil that is off. My complaint is that forcing I/O requires a right-click, and is thus a two-step operation.
4. Copy & Paste logic elements. The Pasted element is not put at where the mouse was clicked. It is put below and to the left, mostly. Sometimes to the right.
>>This is a feature rather than a bug, though most people don't like it. The pasted element goes in the same spot it came from and has nothing to do with where you mouse click. For HMI elements I usually create a scratch HMI display that is blank to paste elements, then I move them to the coordinates I want them, copy again and paste to the final location. When performing ladder element copy/paste it can be quite handy to have the element go to the exact same spot in every rung I paste it and I like that functionality there - though the spot must be empty or it will paste at the bottom of the rung.
5. I have to click / drag / etc by the actual element symbol. I should be able to do operations when selecting the address box above it.
>>This is also a "feature". Each basic ladder element is composed of two parts and each part has separate functionality. The address box is for addressing and the element symbol is for moving, but it also lets you very conveniently change from a normally open contact to a normally closed, or a transition contact etc by simply right-clicking and selecting a new function. It also works with coils and certain other elements. The ability to drag and drop elements anywhere, not just within a ladder rung and the ability to change the element type on the fly are two of the handiest aspects of this software.
Here is my top 3 list for improvements to VisiLogic:
1) Ability to open two programs at once to allow copy and paste between them.
2) A simulator to allow program testing without the need for a physical PLC.
3) Online editing capability.
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You have to re-initialize the ethernet card with the new IP address. Changing the MIs only changes the data that the card will get the address from, but it only looks there during initialization. Thus MB4000 triggers the initialization process to update the address.
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You're probably doing the right thing to make sure your program does what you intend, however, I'm curious about what your problem really is. Are you saying that the program is losing its "Power Up" values (the ones you enter when you are writing the program in VisiLogic), or are you saying it's losing the values last entered as part of normal program operations (i.e. user entry or created via internal calculation)? If it's the latter, my understanding is the battery power is what retains those values. If it's the former (the Power Up values) then my understanding is that they should be retained in flash memory along with the rest of the program.
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Well, that didn't format very well, but I think I finally got it working. I was confused between local port and remote port. I also didn't realize at first that I needed two MODBUS IP Config FBs in the Master PLC.
While we're on this subject, any suggestions are welcome for a rock-solid routine that will detect and correct network problems automatically. What I'm doing is looking for a status message greater than zero and/or no change in transaction count for 2 sec. If either of these is seen, I close the socket, reinitialize the ethernet & socket, then re-connect the socket. This works pretty well, but I'm worried that I may be missing something important.
Thanks.
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I'm learning networking as fast as I can, but it's still a confusing subject for me. I've been able to successfully network 2 PLCs using MODBUS IP over ethernet, but now I need to add a third and can't seem to get it to work. Although I have a basic understanding of ports and sockets, I can't find the right combination to get everything talking. Can someone fill in the blanks with the proper or suggested values for each? Each PLC also needs to be able to communicate with a PC.
PLC1 Master PLC2 Slave0 PLC3 Slave1 PC
IP Address 192.168.1.101 192.168.1.102 192.168.1.103 192.168.1.100
Init Socket (PLC comm) Socket # ? Socket # ? Socket # ?
Port # ? Port # ? Port # ?
Init Socket (PC comm) Socket 1 Socket 1 Socket 1
Port #? Port # ? Port # ?
I get confused about whether the Socket # and Port # needs to be the same on each end of the communications path or must be different. Likewise whether the Socket # and Port # needs to be different between the two slave PLCs.
Thanks for your help.
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I fixed my problem by changing everything to the 192.168.1.xxx subnet. This tells me that the problem was due to some sort of firewall running on my laptop that wasn't allowing access to the 10.1.1.xxx addressing. I cannot find any firewall running on my laptop, so I'm not sure how to fix it, but the problem appears to be within my laptop (though why did PING work?) and not anything to do with the PLC. Thanks, Ofir and Ziwi, for your attempts to help.
Very slow HMI editing in Visilogic
in Vision & Samba PLC + HMI Controllers & VisiLogic Software
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Damian, what is your screen resolution? I wonder if, similar to what Cara was mentioning, Win7 decides to default to 125% on computers with higher resolution. I specifically ordered my 15" laptop with 1920x1080 because I wanted more pixels available for Visilogic. I wish I could find one even higher (without going up to 17").