V130-33-B1 Upload programing problem

[smunoz]

Hello! I'm working with a V130-33-B1 with an existing program runing inside it. I try to Upload the program to my PC but I cant since it has RS485 MODBus Prtcl pre defined by someone else.

The PLC has 2 ports.

• Port 1 (RJ11) seems to be the connection where to program with PC as usual. Nothing connected.
• Port 2 (RJ11) same side of port 1, it's connected to circuit board of I/O since model B1 has no I/O in it.

When I check the (i) button>info mode>communication>1.Serial both ports has this config:

• COM - RS485
• Prtcl: MODBus 
• Ign Brk:N
• Settings: 115200,8,n,1,N
• Tx/Rx: 0000 0002
• Silence: 1,25

Since this is RS485 I can't use regular RS232 cable (mine is RJ11 to DB9 4 wires made by myself to USB converter HL340). This is obvius but i'm new to this config so I clarify it. I tested some RS232 programing process with another V130 of mine using my custom DIY rj11toDb9 cable and works perfect.

My problem starts when I try to retrieve the program of the controller V130-33-B1, as I said, with 2 ports (Port 1 and 2) in RS485 Modbus protocol. I connected to port 1 since port 2 is directly connected to another I/O circuit. When connecting to port 1 I used my cable RJ11 to DB9 to USB converter HL340 and then in Visilogic I try Connections>Communication & OS to Get OPLC information via serial.  Here I got the error 206 message related to communication problems wich don't let me Upload the program from the PLC to my PC. I obviusly think is the RS485 thing. 

The question is:

1. I need to get a RS485 cable or converter to connect to the controller? (this is obvius but I need to read it from someone). Can someone explain to me the circuit if i can make it myself. I already has a RS485 TO RS232 Converter (showed in picture) model 485SD9TB.
2. If so, how can I retrieve the controller's program into visilogic if the comunication protocol is modbus? As I read in other forums, this may cause problems with COM and PCOM trying to comunicate with modbus device and ignoring the programing of my PC. What's the steps of getting the controller program with Upload whit this configuration of the controller, I'm really new in Modbus 485 configs and really want to understand what is happening to debelop more embebed circuits. I don't know if I can just move the internal jumpers of the controller to be in 485, but I don't think so since it has a program that expect 485.

Thanks very much, I try to explain my situation the best as I can. If u have any question please let me know.

[Joe Tauser]

You can move the jumpers inside the V130 to put Port 1 into RS-232 mode.

You can put the PLC into STOP mode using Info Mode to get it to stay in PCOM protocol.  Modbus isn't initiated until the first scan of the ladder program.

If you Check Connection from Visilogic and get a response then you are configured correctly.  I suspect you still won't be able to upload the program unless the original programmer did a Burn Upload project.  It is disabled by default.

 

Joe T.

[Ausman]

Apart from what Joe suggests, I would like to know what I/O your Port 2 is connected to?  Port 2 on  a 130 is optional, and is either another serial, or ethernet.  But neither of those would normally be connected to an I/O.  The reason I ask is because I'm pondering if your I/O system is Unitronics and it is simply plugged into the wrong port.  The expansion port for such a connection is on the other side.

In Info mode, what is showing for all the ports on the PLC?  You have to step through the different comms to get all these answers.

I'm also with Joe in that if the program has been well enough made that it is using 485, then it is highly likely that it is not uploadable, to protect the original creator's ideas. 

cheers, Aus

[Ausman]

Further to my comments above, I woke this morning with my brain having realised overnight  (...thanks so much for sleeping !)  that if Port 2 IS ethernet, then you can easily use info mode to change the network settings so that you can access the unit via ethernet.  No need for jumpers changing.  If you set it to defaults, one of the ports will automatically become pcom if it has been changed via the program.  But I think you will find that one of the ports will be pcom anyway.  You just need to explore all the various attributes available when in Info mode, and will probably find that socket 1 (accessed by pushing 2...careful reading of the screen is important) is pcom.  Find the IP address etc and you'll be in.

cheers, Aus

[smunoz]

On 10/11/2024 at 2:08 PM, Joe Tauser said:

You can move the jumpers inside the V130 to put Port 1 into RS-232 mode.

This will not cause any problem in terms of shorts or something that can damage the device? Even if the ladder maybe espect the rs485?  I ask this but I have the feeling that this will be safe. The only thing, as you say, is to hope last programmer did a burn upload. Also, if the PLC is starting and I put it in stop in info mode, this will stop the PLC but the modbus line in ladder already was scanned as i can understand. How can I prevent the scan, how to turn on the controller in stop mode? or maybe this wont work as I understand.

Anyways, If I have the oportunity to move the jumpers in the future I'l be notifyng. Thanks for the help sir!

[smunoz]

On 10/11/2024 at 7:27 PM, Ausman said:

Apart from what Joe suggests, I would like to know what I/O your Port 2 is connected to?  Port 2 on  a 130 is optional, and is either another serial, or ethernet.  But neither of those would normally be connected to an I/O.  The reason I ask is because I'm pondering if your I/O system is Unitronics and it is simply plugged into the wrong port.  The expansion port for such a connection is on the other side.

The i/o board doesn't seems to be unitronics but it is connected to port 2, as I said, configured also like port 1 with RS485, prtkl MODBus, N, 115200, 8,n,1,N. And yes, the controller has the Ethernet expansion port in the right side and I understand that this is for unitronic modules. In this case it is empty, nothing connected there. What can I understand is that the controller communicates whit the driver on RS485.

Quote

In Info mode, what is showing for all the ports on the PLC?  You have to step through the different comms to get all these answers.

Both coms says the same, RS485 an so for.

Quote

I'm also with Joe in that if the program has been well enough made that it is using 485, then it is highly likely that it is not uploadable, to protect the original creator's ideas. 

That's what I also think, this has some security in it. The original idea was to learn or discover how this system works but  I guess I'll need to do it from scratch. 

 

22 hours ago, Ausman said:

...that if Port 2 IS ethernet, then you can easily use info mode to change the network settings so that you can access the unit via ethernet...

The port 2 is modbus 485 also but I'll study this aproach by the way when I can check the device again, but the only ethernet port that I saw the last time was in the righ side, commonly used for expansion to other unitronic modules, or daisy chainning some PLC (as long as I know).

 

Thanks for your ideas, If I have success I'l be writing here, cheers!

[Ausman]

15 hours ago, smunoz said:

but the only ethernet port that I saw the last time was in the righ side, commonly used for expansion to other unitronic modules, or daisy chainning some PLC (as long as I know).

It is NOT an ethernet port, it is just the same physical configuration.  It is only designed to work with specific Unitronics expansion adapters and I/Os.  Ethernet port (when fitted to Port 2) has a metal surround and led indicators.  People often mistakenly plug expansion or ethernet into the wrong port.  🤪

[Joe Tauser]

18 hours ago, smunoz said:

This will not cause any problem in terms of shorts or something that can damage the device?

No.  The RS485 port uses the outer two pins of the RJ11 connector while RS232 uses the inner four.  You can actually plug the 232 cable in when it's configured for 485 and it will work.

If you plug in the 232 cable and do a "Check Connection" from Visilogic, the controller will recognize the request from the software and shift to PCOM mode momentarily.  If there's something in the program that is set to poll Modbus in Master mode the port protocol will jump back and forth while you're trying to talk to it from Visilogic.

Either way, you're not going to damage the PLC by playing with the serial port.

Joe T.