Ausman

Intrigued how you did this, Tozo. I cannot achieve this result no matter what I do. Or have you "made" this image meaning what you would like to see when you say "this would be nice"? cheers, Aus

Thanks Alexander, Can the creators please have a look at rectifying this issue...it can't be too hard. It is a bit pointless being able to detach it, then not being able to manipulate it's size to suit your desktop layout, or make it large for a big watch setup, when it keeps on reverting to only 7 lines. Cheers, Aus

Thanks Alexander, I can't do screen shots that show this easily at present as I only have my small screen device with me. However, if you click on View/Output Window it will hide/bring up the window in question. Once detached, no resize functions work at all, yet the mouse icons change appropriately. Hope this is enough info. If not, I can do screen shots in a few days. cheers, Aus

Hi all, 9.7.55 - 0 on Win 7 Hm Prem 32, admin run and installed. Needed more screen space to view the ladder, but also had to have the Output Window so I detached it. I can't resize it at all once it is detached. I can drag it around, but not resize it. Resize pointer marks come up, but can't do it. Bug? cheers, Aus

Thanks Saragani, Yes it solves the problem. I have never run Operator since encountering some long forgotten issue in the past. Seems to be working fine, though. But there is something definitely nice about Remote Access only giving you the small window to work with, rather than all the extra clutter of Operator. Perhaps something to think about for future releases? cheers, Aus

Hi all, RA 9.5.0. For many of my "programmer only" setting screens I use the small fonts 5. I can fit an awful lot of adjustments into these screens on a V130. They look like gobbledegook to others, but make sense to me. I often use Remote Access to alter these settings at sites, as I set my program/screens up to make it easier to use this method, rather than needing a complete run of VisiLogic going. This also has the innate advantage of easy onsite adjustments without a laptop. When using Remote Access on my puter, the window size is small enough that fonts 5 is hard to read, even with my proper specs on. I know, I know, gettin' old! If I zoom anything above 1x, the keys disappear. If you tell it to show keys at higher zoom levels, it reverts back to 1x zoom. And custom zoom doesn't seem to do much. Is there a trick to make it keep the keys visible at bigger zoom levels? Or is this a bug that you could easily fix to save my poor old eyeballs? It also happens using remote access within VisiLogic, too. Cheers, Aus.....(needing higher rated specs every day!)

Thanks Cant and Flex. I hear your opinions and take note. Although no expert, I have been programming many brands of PLCs on and off for 20 years. I use the subroutine method purely to make it easier to work on the many different aspects of the installs I do. If I didn't break things up some of the ladders would be very large indeed! I try to follow the descending method of Inputs, process/adjust, interpret, anything ultra important happened since I started?, outputs. With many offshoots within each area being run as necessary. If the now-defunct "20 year old but still good" system that I was working with can show what the power rail is actually doing over a slow serial connection, I can't see why something more modern shouldn't be able to do it as well. I agree, Flex, that it just seems to show what each state is. Another example of the old system's logical design is that my "fast" timer issue by being called twice doesn't happen in this older gear either. If you set a timer running, it just bangs away correctly no matter how many times it is referenced or looped. Don't get me wrong, I love Unitronics gear. I re-accomodate to the different systems, but it just takes time to settle back into driving the different vehicle! cheers, Aus

Thanks R. That seemed to do the trick. Also, a suggestion for the upgrade wizard. The need to only do it via the com port should be strongly highlighted in the very first window before you get anywhere near the actual process. I have a site visit to do because I didn't note this important warning early enough, tried to do it via the net. Clicked on proceed just as I fully absorbed the info...damn! My fault, but a slight window alteration would help. It didn't help that the entire procedure was initiated by me accessing the controller remotely to do a full download and being told that I had to do the required update. The natural thinking is that it can all be done by the link that has told you the update was needed, but this isn't the case. FYI, I also had trouble using version swapper on this build as it wouldn't load everything correctly during "Register". This seems to be cured, too, but might be totally unrelated as I have had the program in and out a few times since first trying. I might have been originally trying to use the swapper in 9.7.0, not the latest. cheers and thanks, Aus

Hi Ofir, eventually found it. The sub was also being called via a Choose "While Displaying" Subroutine in a Link & Jump. I had put it there initially and then changed my mind and used ladder work instead. Forgot to delete it via right click. I will keep in mind that such things cause timers to run this way. Haven't encountered it before, so learn something new every day. Thanks again, Cheers, Aus

Hi again Ofir, Can't seem to find anything. Attached a screen shot of the search results and the two nets involved. I must have a call hidden away somewhere that I haven't found yet. Looking....looking...looking! cheers, Aus

Thanks for the quick response, Ofir, checking it all out now.

Hi all, zip attached with little video in it of timer doing strange thing....it appears to be running twice as fast. (edit..vid removed for space) I have a few in the program doing the same thing....but not all. Different types doing it. Anyone got any ideas on what is going on here? Took a while for me to figure out why something was happening earlier than expected! Cheers, Aus

Hi Maakari, I do this sort of thing all the time. At the risk of going outside your original scope, I suggest that it will be far easier and more economical long term to change your blowers to systems based on EBM EC units, or similar units from other makers. Benefits are numerous with the main ones being far more efficient resulting in very quick payback; no belt maintenance issues; inbuilt variable speed simply controlled by 0-10v, 4-20ma, or bus; no electrical interference issues to deal with at all and will couple straight to your existing 3ph power with likely much lower CBs needed. You can even have them direct linked to sensors to achieve what you want without any plc input, just having the plc monitor it. eg CO2 sensor drives the motor directly so that as it rises, speed increases. Of course the plc can do this, but it involves more hardware and programming. Is better, but more complex. I understand that changing the blowers might be hard, but it will be well worth it. Quieter, smoother, heaps better all round...can't stress this enough. By the time you add in all the costs associated to put VFDs in correctly, and ongoing maintenance $s of what you already have, you will be a long way along the cost of changing. And as well, your motors may not handle a VFD anyway. On sensors, I recommend going with known brand names. Speaking from horrible experience, although the pricing is often many hundreds of percent more, you will avoid hassles you might get with lower priced "bargains". You can eventually get them to work correctly, but have spent ages achieving this when the big $ version just bangs straight in and works ok forever. Ebay is useful, but on something so important quality is also vital....the usual ebay dilemma...sometimes stuff there is great, sometimes not so good! Also, don't forget to have outside air intake adjustable via modulating damper. You have required minimums/maximums to maintain, along with keeping it pleasant anyway. I think you are going to find that it will end up more complex than you first thought, to make it great. To finish, I usually end up with the EC's using b/n 1/3 to 1/2 the power for the same airflow. On something running 24/7 these $s add up quickly. cheers, Aus

Hi everyone, has anyone else had trouble doing an OS update in 9.7.55? ie Help/Check for Updates/Operating System The program told me I needed to do an update for a controller. As soon as I do this requested action I get a Run-time error "13" Type mismatch warning, and on ok VisiLogic shuts down. I installed everything without UAC and am running the exe as admin in Win 7 32, including the shortcuts. I did a full uninstall/reinstall in case I messed anything up, but have the same result. Please give it a go and advise. cheers, Aus

No comments as yet on this problem that I think needs resolving? I have tried the latest version and the issue is the same. If something isn't being called, it shouldn't be showing power. cheers, Aus

Hi Paul, Uhhhmmmm. Isn't it there already? Or perhaps you are asking something different? Please elaborate. Aus

Hi again all, I have been working on another brand of PLC lately and am now back to my Unitronics stuff. The other brand treats sequential "groups" of ladder work as part of the main scan. I spent hours yesterday trying to figure out why a linearisation wasn't working. I was developing the next stage of a program and just had one element in the ladder, to work from there. Double check everything and it should be working....hmmmm...why not? Maybe I've forgotten how to do the X/Y relationships. Change things around again, many many times and still no output to my MI. What is going on? Power is there and it all should be working. Finally in frustration I looked up other work and noted the subroutine calls. I hadn't put any into my ladder because of my using the other PLC type which didn't need them. I was simply doing the same thing, where I had a number of routines but had separated them into the general idea of what was happening in that part of the ladder. On the other PLC I didn't need to call them. In this case I was starting on all the linearisation that is going to happen, wth it all in its own subroutine. My big whinge is that Visilogic (9.7.0/0) shows the power rail as active across the ladder elements in a subroutine that isn't being called. This is what was constantly throwing me off. To my thinking this is a significant fault in the program. If I had seen that there wasn't any power I would have twigged immediately. But I was being told that it was there. I know that I should have realised my error, but it is easy to get confused when working with other PLCs, as one has to remember so many different ways of doing much the same thing. But having the power rail as showing didn't help at all!! And the other thing that really bugs me, which perhaps should be in a separate thread, is that you can't do even the most minor alterations to a program on line. This other brand lets it happen to a high stage of complexity. Whilst online you can enter an edit mode and use most of the elements available. It asks all the precautionary questions that one would expect when you tell it to commit, as I understand that in some instances such a capability has the possiblity of doing something catastrophic. However, used sensibly it is fantastic. It makes it so much easier to change your ladder when you have made a dumb error, or want to try another way. I wish Unitronics would try to find a way for this to happen......it is a right pain in the bum having to go through the entire download process if you just want to trial/change one tiny thing. cheers, Aus

Thanks Joe, As usual, great info. Sorry for the delayed thanks, had to deal with a sudden failure. cheers, Aus

Hi again all, To save me some (days of?) mockup testing and likely hair removal, is it possible to perform full remote access operations on a 120 connected by canbus to a 230 that has the ethernet connection? If so, any tricks I should know about? I guess the question also applies to any units in the same configuration, just for general interest. Thanks and Happy New Year to all, Cheers from Aus.

Hi all, thanks very much to everyone for their input. I love your comment, Joe, about wire vendors being "proud". Also, about "getting familiar" with modbus, I am doing lots of workbench mockups for my knowledge increase, before committing it's use to the project. If I decide to go the bus way I'll bite the bullet and invest in some proper cable for the final install as it looks to be the only surefire thing. Cheers from Aus,

Thanks Paul, I realise now I should have been more specific, sorry. It's Modbus RTU on 485 with the 130 as a master getting info from various modules by other makers. Call me cheap!, but it's just that I've been a bit amazed at the prices of 'proper' 485 STP 1.5 cabling and was wondering if I really needed it for the runs I might be doing, or might be able to get away with a cheaper alternative. I've read of lots of people using some of the twisted pairs on ethernet cables quite successfully. thanks for the help, Aus

Hi all, I know this is a dumb question, but I am considering using Modbus on a job. I have never had to use it before, with components normally fairly close together and direct IO being perfectly adequate. I have read far and wide about cable requirements and need some advice from those who regularly use it. To do a run of 40m max, am I going to get away with Cat5 in a fairly noise-free environment? Using one pair as signals and another commoned as the ground, with the other two pairs perhaps being used as 24dc digital IOs or as spares. I guess I am really asking what types of cables have people used for what distances? V130 as controller, speed isn't that important but it has to be reliable. Cheers from Mr Modbus-Know-Nothing-but-Learning-Fast!

Thanks Emil, and everyone else for their input. I think that I'll go down the 2 x 230 on ethernet path as it looks to be the easiest. I'm sorry I didn't think to ask about snap-ins in the first place...brain stuck on a misconception. This solution is a bit like that elegant bit of programming you've done. You work on the issue and eventually arrive at something far simpler and better than what you started with, then look at it and wonder why you didn't think of that in the first place! Learn something new every day, so thanks to all. Cheers from Aus.

Thanks for your very helpful suggestions Simon, I know this is a dumb question, but is it ok to operate a 230 without a snap-in and just be connected to IOs via the expansion port? It has just occurred to me that this would give me simple ethernet only connections using the two 230s I have, instead of one 230 and one 120, but I have always thought they needed to have the snap-in attached. From what Emil and Joe say it appears that ethernet is easier to set up and this way I would only need to get one 19-ET1. Call me chicken, but I don't want to try running the 230 without the snap-in without someone telling me it's ok! I can't find anything about this in anything I've seen so far, but it's probably in a manual somewhere. Visilogic doesn't seem to mind it as a build config. cheers from Aus.

Additional relevant info is that I only have one snap-in for the 230, though, hence not able to use both 230s that I have. I know, I know!!! I shouldn't be so cheap, and just go and spend some more $! cheers, Aus