V130 dark screen contrast

[glacier]

Today I woke up to this dark contrast screen ! 

Does anyone have an idea where the problem is coming from ? 

 normally it should just have the white color without the contrast ! 

This is the stage before the machine is turned on ! 

Best regards ! 

[Joe Tauser]

There is something wrong with that PLC.  It looks like it has an OEM program in it - you can't just go out and buy another V130 and load the program unless the machine builder shares it with you. 

Most likely you will need to contact the OEM and get a replacement controller.

Joe T. 

[glacier]

Thank you Joe for tour response !

In fact it turns out that the battery is completely dead and there is a lot of humidity inside too. The problem is that the manufacturer of the machine has defenitely closed ! 

Before that I could turn it on and I had this screen. 

 I don't know if these problems are related ? 

[Joe Tauser]

The symptoms of a dead battery are not predictable - the different screens you see could be related to a root cause.  The OS in that unit is from 2012, which is probably when the machine was built.  Backup batteries are usually good for 7 - 10 years, so you are due to replace it

If you're lucky the OEM did a "Download and Burn" when he built the machine and the program is permanently in the unit's flash memory.   Replacing the battery should bring it back to life.

If it doesn't, you've got a dead machine on your hands.  I Googled "Autofrigor" and it seems they're still in business, they just don't make that machine anymore.  You may be able to contact them and find a sympathetic ear that will share the program with you.

Joe T.  

[glacier]

Thank you Joe again for your response !

The company was bought by another and there was no transfer of patents or programs (crazy right?)!

Before I could see the program "autofrigor.vlp" in the menu when I accessed it. 

but now I think there is also an electrical problem because I can no longer even start the machine !  it was like, it is in self defense mode. 

 

[Ausman]

18 hours ago, glacier said:

could see the program "autofrigor.vlp"

I'm assuming this was via Info mode?  This doesn't necessarily mean you can get the program out of the PLC.  As Joe says, hopefully they did a BURN as well.

Your other pictures show the controller to be part of the main body, thus easily affected by the vat's low temperature, which would account for the moisture present in the controller.  And this will have been ongoing, so it is entirely possible that there is a fault somewhere caused by the condensation.  If you do get the controller going ok again with a new battery, I would seriously look at mounting it out of the machine body.  Make a mounting arm that will also house the "wiring extensions" you would have to do.

And yes....I've worked on ice cream machines and condensation prevention is an issue.....that often isn't addressed for both ease of manufacture, and pricing.

cheers, Aus

[glacier]

Hi Ausman and thanks for your response ! 

Yes i saw it via info mode by pressing the "i" Button for 5 sec , but that was before I got this dark screen  ! 

we will look at the condensation too ! Can a problem with condensation lead to the machine's start button being blocked ? 

I will replace the battery today normally ! 

I will consider your suggestion to protect the circuits from humidity. 

I will keep you informed ! 

[Ausman]

On 6/6/2024 at 8:56 PM, glacier said:

Can a problem with condensation lead to the machine's start button being blocked ?

A problem with condensation in the controller can lead to any number of issues.  Imagine dropping your non-waterproof mobile in a bucket of water......

Ice cream makers like shown are inherently simple things.  Refrigeration and the motor to churn the mix.  I'm guessing that the plc is only used to enable variations for different mixes, hence the "recipe" setting, which depending on how the machine is built may control motor speed, but more likely fixed speed, along with temperature control and length of run.  If you don't use recipes, then it is in some ways overkill, and you may be able to do without it.  Simpler controls on the system may do all you need.  If it does vary speed etc and you DO use recipes. then you need to stick with it.   If the plc revives with the battery there is more for you to do.  Do keep us informed.

cheers, Aus

[glacier]

Back to the news, I replaced the battery and now I have a blank screen and beeps coming from the controller. When I press "i" to enter "info mode" it doesn't respond ! Does anyone have any idea what must have happened ? 
 I recall that at one point before replacing the battery I got this screen when entering "info mode" . 

 I guess I'll have to reinstall the boot and OS via visilogic?

[Ausman]

Beeps?  All the 130s I've used can't do this, but given it's a branded one perhaps it's been added specially. 

Given you've talked about condensation, I'd carefully pull the thing completely apart and check for any obvious corrosion present. 

And it's a likely yes to do the reinstall, which on 130s MUST be done via serial port.

cheers, Aus

[glacier]

Hello, and thank you for your reply Ausman.

 We had carefully disassembled the device when installing the new battery and had noted some corrosion indeed.

Apart from that, the machine is relatively dry.  It's not really a beep but a continuous sound when you turn on the machine (as you can see on the video : Before I replaced the battery it didn't have that sound.) 

 

Why doesn't the controller respond when you try to enter "info mode"?

Tomorrow I'll try to connect with the unitronics cable to see if I can get communication with the PLC.

I'll let you know what happens next. 

Best regards ! 

 

[Ausman]

I can't play that at present on something with sound.  Are you sure it's the plc?  It might be something else in the machine that has failed, and caused a fault in the plc. 

At present I would be seriously thinking about getting a replacement.  Regardless of what eventually happens, it will be good insurance.  If the noise IS the plc, some electronics can make noises under certain conditions, but any sort of noise from a plc I consider an issue.  Does the noise go away if you unplug all connectors and simply power the plc?

Regarding the likelihood of not being able to get the program out of the unit, does it have a wiring diagram?  Normally attached to the insides somewhere, or else provided separately.  As I've said before, it should all be essentially fairly simple, and someone (but not me) could likely do you a replacement program fairly rapidly, including recipes.  But perhaps it is more complex, and the diagram would be a good start.  Even a photo of the connections and the guts of the unit would help.

cheers, Aus

[glacier]

Thank you Ausman for your reply. 
Indeed, you were right I opened the machine and it turns out that it is not the PLC that makes this noise (beep) but a buzzer that is just installed next to it. Why it screams ? I have no idea ! 

I'm going to try disconnecting all the PLC connections apart from the power supply to see if it'll display anything other than a white light, or if I can access the menu info. 
I'll look for the electrical diagram of the machine, or if I can't find it, I'll take some good photos of the circuit. 
And as bad luck never comes alone, I tried to connect via the serial port using 2 cables (MJ10-22-CS35 + USB-DB9 RS232). When I tried to establish the connection, after a long period of work, I got the error (206).(not my image) 

I remind you that I'm using Windows 10 and visilogic 9.4.0 (which matches the Version of my PLC 03.004.12) provided by unitronics support. And yes I installed and opened it as administrator and installed the USB drivers from visilogic. Any ideas? 

Best regards ! 

 

[DanT]

Hi;

 

What Baud Rate?       V130 is  57,600 Max.

Assuming you have correct Com Port on PC  selected( Device Manager)

 

DanT

 

[Ausman]

The buzzer making a noise implies some sort of fault in switching it.  More evidence to get another plc.

You should not have installed the USB drivers with Visilogic.  That is for higher end Vision models that have a usb port.  You need to ensure a few things.

1).  You need to uninstall the visilogic driver, reboot and then install your USB converter, using the driver supplied with the converter.  The converter HAS to use a Prolific chip, and also be genuine Prolific.  If it isn't it may not work properly anyway, this is a known issue as there is an abundance of fakes out there.  If it appears to "sort of" work but not completely correct, it might be the converter. Such issues can send you nuts, but the root cause is a fake, or incorrect product.  (That's why I'm crazy, I was around when the fakes started appearing.....🤪  )

2).  W10 has quirks with proper 232 connection to the plc.  If possible, load 9.4.0 onto a PC/laptop etc running W7 and use that.  I have recently found what I believe to be the solution to the issue, but it is not proven yet so I haven't put it up on the forum.

3).  Bearing in mind Dan's comment above, I have sometimes found that I have to match baud rate in both Visi and Device manager.  Many times you will see Visilogic shift itself to the "failsafe" mode of 9600.  Watch the lower left of the Visilogic window.

4). Good luck.

cheers, Aus

[glacier]

Hello, I still have the error 206 and I think it's due to the cable because I tried with different Baudrates in concordance with the values on the device manager but I still have nothing. I uninstalled the visilogic drivers as recommended by Ausman (but nothing). So I ordered an original cable which should arrive shortly. 
In the meantime I've had a look at the micro SD Card (with SD Card Explorer) to see if the project was saved in the User_app folder, but unfortunately it's empty. 
Nevertheless, I found table folders filled with 100 recipes each (I'm attaching 2 recipes in UDT format). I think they are involved in the creation and memorization of the various recipes that the machine needs to perform. 
And I think the program is in flash memory, because I'd managed to note down even the program version when I could access the menu info, and I think the battery was already dead!
 (Autofrigor.v5.81.vlp) 
But I'll still need a lot of luck, because even after connecting to the PLC, I'll have to upload the project (which may require a password or be impossible to upload because the programmer has configured it that way). Either way, it won't stop me from digging because I'm a stubborn person!

Any recommendations are welcome.  

Best regards ! 

RECET_01.UDT RECET_02.UDT