PCOM Required

[Kevin Pos Elec]

Hi I have a V130-33-TR20

Approx 12 years old.

We have recently attempted to change the program and updated the operating system.

Unfortunately the controller is happy to take the download but will not enter run mode.

The HMI shows PCOM Req. Using the communications functions everything just stays IDLE. Unable to run the program.  

Hopefully someone has had the same issue and can assist. Thanks in advance

[Ausman]

I'm assuming that you've downloaded Visilogic 9.9.01 from the website and have used that for all your changes?

Security changes Unitronics have done have made some actions on various models erratic.

If your unit is not attached to the outside world, I would seriously consider rolling back to the Visilogic version you initially started with and do all your program mods with it. This would involve reloading the earlier OS and boot files, which you appear to have updated as required by the later version.

HOWEVER....before you do any of this, I suggest you look at the landing page of the Vision area of the forum (the area where you have posted) and check out all the various posts and discussions about INFO password.  If you correctly apply the new password requirements learnt about by doing the suggested reading, you may get things going ok.

As well as also have a look at this:   https://forum.unitronics.com/topic/7245-dont-update-just-because-you-can/  

Unitronics has stopped providing earlier Visilogic versions on it's download page.  In theory you will have the earlier version, but if you don't then further discussion needed....

Hopefully using the Set password additions will get you going.

I'm also assuming that you've tried to initiate Run via Info mode, but perhaps you can't even get into Info mode....?

cheers, Aus

[Flex727]

15 hours ago, Kevin Pos Elec said:

...and updated the operating system.

As has been stated many times on this forum, NEVER do this unless you must have a new feature or bug fix offered by the updated firmware. PLCs are not PCs and should not be routinely updated to the latest rev if they are in the field and functioning properly.

[Bisku]

15 hours ago, Kevin Pos Elec said:

We have recently attempted to change the program and updated the operating system.
Unfortunately the controller is happy to take the download but will not enter run mode.

The HMI shows PCOM Req. Using the communications functions everything just stays IDLE. Unable to run the program.  

 

I ran into the same problem here.

The newer PLCs we received forced us to install the newer VisiLogic-Software because they came with the new "secure" os.  But with that new VisiLogic software it is impossible to do changes on older PLCs without updating them ... and then I ran into the same problem (using a Samba 43). You are no longer able to start the PLC and you are stuck with the PCOM Req. Error. Manual start of the PLC using the Info Mode is impossible.
 

What solved the problem for me:

First you have to make sure the ladder code will set a PCOM passwort on startup as documented by Unitronics.
Unfortunately this will not be of any help during an update because VisiLogic will install the new ladder code only AFTER the firmware update has been made. But when the firmware update is done it will ensure that the ladder code cannot be updated or started. I think someone didn't think this through...

However, there is a workaround - at least for the samba models:
I disassembled the Ethernet I/O-Module from my PLC. Now I was able to start the PLC (and you can update the ladder code using the standard COM:-I/O if necessary as this point as well). It seems like the firmware detects whether there is a ethernet-module available or not. Once the ladder code was started, my code was able to set the PCOM password. I reassembled the Ethernet I/O-module and now it the PLC starts just fine.

But I don't want to hide the fact that I still have a problem:

The VisiLogic software doesn't ask for the PCOM password, probably because the PLC is already known and it has been saved somewhere that no password is required. The PLC is currently starting up again, but I still can't access it from my PC via VisiLogic. It works from other PCs, though. 😕

Overall, the new firmware update is more than frustrating.

[Bisku]

1 hour ago, Flex727 said:

As has been stated many times on this forum, NEVER do this unless you must have a new feature or bug fix offered by the updated firmware. PLCs are not PCs and should not be routinely updated to the latest rev if they are in the field and functioning properly.

I totally agree here. But Unitronics forces me to install the newest VisiLogic-software for any new PLC  and they neither tell you about the consequences nor to they offer the old versions on their website. So, everyone has a good chance to run into this problem now.

 

Honestly, if we would have that many Unitronics PLC out in the field, we would most certainly change the products just because of the new firmware issues. And that's a shame because otherwise the Samba is working great for us.

[Flex727]

If you are running older PLCs you should have the older version of VisiLogic if you have any expectation of updating the software. If the older version of VisiLogic has been lost, I believe Unitronics Support will provide it, assuming the PLC has an air gap to the internet.

If you have a newer replacement PLC, you can downgrade the firmware from the older version of VisiLogic.

[Bisku]

28 minutes ago, Flex727 said:

If you have a newer replacement PLC, you can downgrade the firmware from the older version of VisiLogic.

I'd love to do that. But have you been successfull in downgrading a newer PLC that came with the PCOM-safe firmware? 
 I did try it once and ended up being stuck in Factory Boot mode with Flash ID Error.
So, right now I cannot recommend to downgroad a PLC with one of the newer OS versiones.
 

[Flex727]

16 minutes ago, Bisku said:

But have you been successfull in downgrading a newer PLC that came with the PCOM-safe firmware? 

What I have done is upgraded a new-ish PLC to the firmware from VisiLogic 9.0.1, got all the necessary stuff working and was able to pass all the security requirements and fully boot, then downgraded it back to 9.8.96 and ran a 9.8.96-native project without problems. If there are other differences (especially hardware) between the newest PLCs that come from the factory and older PLCs, I'm not aware of them. Perhaps a Unitronics person or distributor can confirm.

[RotafJ]

I am new to Unitronics PLCs and was having a the same or similar issue as you mention above about two weeks ago. I contacted tech support and they gave the attached reply. I added the line of ladder and have been able to put the PLC in RUN and download ladder ever since. Maybe this will help you if you haven’t already found a solution?

[RotafJ]

Neglected to mention I’m working with a V130-J-TRA22

[Ausman]

To all on this topic, I only use 130s and I am quite happy to publicly say that the "security update" has given me no end of grief that has wasted enormous amounts of my time.  Much to and fro in private messaging, often with the creators.  I've ended up going back to 9.8.65 until I can be assured that everything works as it is "said/meant to" in the "secure" versions.  I have been really annoyed by it all being "rushed out" without proper details or proving, and it seems that 130s have been completely neglected in this regard.  I had erratic behaviour over all aspects of the update.

That said, my take on a few things mentioned here.

1).  There IS a pdf that everyone should read, it is found by clicking the red Click Here on the forum home page, near the bottom of News and Announcements where you find Upgrade Now for Enhanced Security, just above the New!!! U90 area.....  Even then some of the contained info is not fully clear...

2).  On my test 130s I was able to reinstate the 8.65 OS files into the 130 by replacing the 9.9.0 files used (in 9.9.0) with the ones 8.65 uses.  This was done by full delete and replace, and then going through the manual choosing of files to use in 9.9.0.  I was NOT able to do this by using 8.65, it had to be done using the later version.  But once the OS etc was back to 8.65, everything could then be accessed by 8.65.  There was a temporary hiccouph where I needed to repower the plc during the update, and then perhaps interact with it, but it was all mostly straightforward.  Also worthy of note is that I could not do it at all using W10, I had to use my W7 laptop that uses a mini pcmcia card.  I've mentioned serial issues before on the forum, and there is still something in W10 that upsets the process.  It doesn't exist in W7.  For those wondering why serial, on 130s you can only do OS updates using the serial port.

3). SDW10 completely changes what it is used for in the secure versions, and this change is one reason why you need to use the version that matches, otherwise you'll get an error during Visilogic boot that you can't get out of.  It was also a complete stumbling block on 130s in that nothing worked as it should, in turning bits on and off.  Do this bit, and nothing would change as it was meant to...do another and suddenly a "far more secure" action would happen that had nothing to do with the bit in question.  It was all over the place, and sent me nuts.  I spent ages starting to write up a full list but the myriad permutations and combinations were just taking too much time, and I stopped as I shouldn't have been needing to do it in the first place.

4).  Given my experience with 9.9.0 I have not been willing to try 9.9.01.  Perhaps things are better, but by what is being said here, I think not.

5). 

9 hours ago, Bisku said:

The VisiLogic software doesn't ask for the PCOM password, probably because the PLC is already known and it has been saved somewhere that no password is required. The PLC is currently starting up again, but I still can't access it from my PC via VisiLogic. It works from other PCs, though. 😕

Overall, the new firmware update is more than frustrating.

YES.  Just one of the myriad issues I encountered.  All a big huh?  Keep in mind that  you have to use the version the OS is matched to, because so much has been fundamentally changed. 

During lots of private messaging about the issue, Kratmel said something very wise:  When you want to have a problem - make changes in the code that you probably did not write.

This seems to be the case here.  I've pondered whether 130s were the neglected little plc during supposed checking....other more sophisticated models perhaps work as expected.

cheers, Aus

 

[Ausman]

9 hours ago, Bisku said:

Honestly, if we would have that many Unitronics PLC out in the field, we would most certainly change the products just because of the new firmware issues. And that's a shame because otherwise the Samba is working great for us.

This is a completely valid point that seems to have been completely missed by the creators.