Recipe and DTI

[zed]

Hello,

I have an application in mind where there are multiple portable machines on an assembly line that each perform the same basic function (lets say they are volumetric dosing machines).  Each has its own PLC.  There are about 100 different products and each unit has 3-5 different doses of said product as the unit moves through the assembly process.  Of course each machine could have its own recipe table but then keeping all the individual machines in sync becomes very challenging.  I want to have a central remote database/table (preferably a user friendly excel file).  From each machine I would like to be able to "pull" the latest recipe list.  One user (production manager) would control the master excel file and then all machines can update from that.

Within Unistream it seems i can load a DTI from a remote file however that file must reside on the SD card.  I can also import or create a DTI from an excel file however that tool is only available from within unistream.  I want the end user to be able to do that from the (virtual) HMI but there does not seem to be a related ladder function.  I can see a way to do this through SQL however that is a little more cumbersome because the user would need to manage the SQL database somehow and that interface would likely be excel so why not skip the SQL part.

Further to this concept, is there a way to group PLC's and communicate with said group from one HMI/webserver?  From the above example, once the recipe file is loaded i would like the user to be able to choose 5 machines out of a group of 10 to assign to a job and then enter the Product ID# to call up a recipe and then have all the machines assigned to that group call the same recipe from that product.  Basically i'm wanting to avoid having to go to each of the 5 machines and enter the product ID# independently.  Similarly, it would be cool to command all machines in a set group to "pull" the master recipe list at the same time, just to avoid have to repeat the same command for each machine.

Machines are portable so not hardwired to a network but would each have a wifi adaptor.  The mater "excel" file would reside in a folder on the network.

I hope that makes sense.  Please feel free to ask me to clarify anything.

Thank you.

 

[Joe Tauser]

Sounds like you're still trying to flesh out a solution to your application.

I'm trying to pull the actual questions out of your post.  Let me know if I did - 

18 hours ago, zed said:

Further to this concept, is there a way to group PLC's and communicate with said group from one HMI/webserver?

Yes.  Use Modbus TCP to throw data between the units.

18 hours ago, zed said:

Within Unistream it seems i can load a DTI from a remote file however that file must reside on the SD card.

Yes.  By design the UniStream can't go out to the network and read/write files - that would be a security nightmare.  We don't need a PLC with the ability to deposit a ransomware payload within the plant.

You can enable the FTP server on the UniStream, and what I tell people to get files from their corporate network onto the UniStream is to have a script running somewhere that copies the file in need to the UniStream.  

The only "file - ish" transaction UniStream can initiate is a SQL Query.  In order for this to work the UniStream must be set up in the SQL database as a user with certain permissions.  This offloads the security responsibility to someone else.

 

Joe T. 

 

[Gabriel Franco]

I would use FTP to receive CSV files from a FTP server on your network to each PLC. Then convert those CSV files to UDTF to be able to use it in your process.

Look at COM: FTP in the toolbox.

[zed]

Good answers, Thanks Guys!

 

I've alreadycreated an SQL DB,  set up SQL  permissions etc, I was just struggling with how the user would interface with that DB.  FTP seems like a viable alternate route.  I'll explore that.

Modbus for interaction.  Got it.

I think the only outstanding question is group assignment.  Is there a way, from one screen or webserver screen, that a user could see 10 active machines and group them something like 5 machines to "Assembly Line 1", 4 to "Assembly line 2" and 1 unassigned?  The idea here is that once assigned to a group they could all act together on the common recipe call.  Perhaps this is more about the method of going about it and Modbus could work for this too?

 

Thanks

 

[Joe Tauser]

Grouping and active status is all about using your imagination.

Modbus is just the method for data transport - like a piece of paper, it doesn't care what's written on it.  Your challenge will be to define the data, the data transfer rules, the operator interface, oh, and don't forget the actual machine control.

If you haven't dug into the UniStream software yet (UniLogic) I'd recommend looking at the Help on SQL, Data Tables, and Modbus for a much more detailed explanation of what you can do.

 

Joe T.

[bobnorway]

I think you will find that SCADA on a PC will give you a better long term solution.

Just the documentation requirements alone would point to a disk based device.

 

 

 

[Marco Mendoza]

Hi Joe and everybody.

First, let me wish you a Happy Holidays for this 2022.

Second, I would appreciate your help and advice for the following issue related to DTI.

How can I load several DTI previously created in Unilogics?

The "Load file from DTI" command is available but we need to declare the DTI to use before we download it to the Unistream PLC.

May I load a DTI  while the Unistream is running?  For instance,  DTI 1,   DTI2 .......DTIn.

 

Very truly yours.

 

Marco Mendoza🧡💚👌🤍💙

ALDOSA Ceramic Industry

Guatemala, Central America

 

 

 

[Gabriel Franco]

I´ve used separated rungs with "Load DTI From file" block for each data table. As long as I know, the data table target (parameter A) cannot be indexed. 

[Marco Mendoza]

Hi, Gabriel

Thanks for your advice, I see that we are unable to modify the data input for this Unilogic Instruction "Load DTI from file".

I'm wondering if we can select several recipes with the following Unilogic function. "Load DTI from Recipe File", or is the same case as above.

An Unitronics specialist told me in a webinar that we could use a SQL query to load several recipes to Data Tables Indexed but using an external Database,

by mean of the following command, as matter of fact, a  command kit developed for that purpose.

What can be done to load several recipes ?  Without using Databases. 

Otherwise, better if  I learn SQL and structure one to reach this goal.

If you can recommend me a tutorial:   "SQL for dummies", should be nice.

I'm a rookie with this topic.

Well my brothers,  enjoy the Holidays or Season Greetings in 2022.

I would appreciate your advice.

Very truly yours,

 

Marco Mendoza🧡💚🔥🤍💙

ALDOSA Ceramic Industry

Guatemala, Central America