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Ausman

Run as Admin flags

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Hi all,

I've whinged about this in the past, and it is still a major source of problems for newbies on the forum.

Can we please have all the installation and program files tick the "Run as Administrator" flags themselves?  I don't know the mechanism as to how this gets forced, (and quick searching didn't reveal it) but it can't be that hard.  I encounter other programs where it is in place, so it just seems silly that Unitronics do not do it when it is absolutely necessary for the correct operation of their programs.

It's a bit like getting a new car, then wondering why it doesn't run because it's something as fundamental as not having petrol (gas for you yankees!) in it.  

If it's needed, do it automatically.

cheers,

Aus

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This isn't the first nor the only thing I have noticed that would make plain sense to have included but isn't. I've learned/trained my subconscious to right click and select "run as administrator" on all trusted third party software I install. One thing I must give credit to Unitronics, Inc for is that they are very responsive when there is a legitimate issue with their software. I had a MODBUS timeout issue a few months ago and they made changes to Unilogic software to rectify it for me. Now it works and my customer is happy. I've been told German and/or Japanese PLC companies are not so quick to help when such issues arise. 

I'm still nudging for MODBUS mixed R/W in UniStream and getting the help fully loaded on unilogic. It was a rough transition from VisiL to UniL for me.

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Well, you can't force a program to run as admin, but you can request windows to try running it as one, by having a manifest file compiled with the program.

If the current user is not an administrator, then the software would fail anyway.

 

UniLogic had this manifest implemented, but we have removed it, since it is not required (only for the installation), and in some location where it was installed, it was required by the IT, that it won't run as administrator.

 

I'll add to the tasks list to make the programs: Remote Operator, SD Card Suite,  Download Manager to be Windows 10 friendly (without requiring administrator rights if not needed).

 

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Just to clarify: the 'run as admin' is necessary for UniLogic at all, the Install does behind the scene gymnastics, so it isn't an issue. Also,
I just spoke to the Saraguru - just be aware that although this will be added to the Utilities he mentioned, it is going to take a little time.

 

6 hours ago, hotwires said:

One thing I must give credit to Unitronics, Inc for is that they are very responsive when there is a legitimate issue with their software.
 

We try :-)

6 hours ago, hotwires said:

I'm still nudging for MODBUS mixed R/W in UniStream and getting the help fully loaded on unilogic. It was a rough transition from VisiL to UniL for me.

We're trying :-)

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Cara,

I know you are. I certainly respect and appreciate you and the UniTeam. I'm old school enough to be a textual learner. Since Windows 95 I've been clicking the windows style help index then: searching,  reading, and getting revelations.

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Thanks Saragini and Cara and Hot,

I also back Hot's comments, but I'm not going to let you off the hook yet!

Saragini, I understand all that you are saying.  So............. another previous suggestion of mine was to have a window that appears at the very start of the install procedure, that says in BIG RED LETTERING that the program needs to be run as admin, and how to do it.

I know I'm harping on this, but it is a real problem that crops up incessantly and wastes lots of time.  Although well trained, I forget to do it sometimes, and it's annoying to get part way through and make the realisation.  Invariably words get uttered like "Ohh gosh, I forgot to do that again!"  Or something like that!

cheers,  (and thanks!)

Aus

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On 3/6/2017 at 3:05 PM, Ausman said:

have a window that appears at the very start of the install procedure, that says in BIG RED LETTERING that the program needs to be run as admin, and how to do it.

+1 on this!

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I'm bumping this as the issue has surfaced AGAIN.

It is very ANNOYING  that the simple solution suggested is not implemented.

cheers,

Aus

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The simplest solution is to make the programs request elevated privileges.

 

I've already done it, and also instructed the Vision team on how to implement it on old ActiveX applications.

 

When the QA is done, the programs should be uploaded to the website.

 

Cara mentioned that it will take time.

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8 hours ago, Saragani said:

Cara mentioned that it will take time.

I stand chastised, Saragini, and I appreciate your efforts.

But I was referring to what I see as the simple solution of the big red lettering advice screen appearing first in the installation process, which I felt covered all the bases.  Not referring to the more complex methods you are working hard to implement.

cheers,

Aus

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Well, actually putting a special screen in the install can be more complicated (The install of Visilogic amd the activex programs are with InstallShield, which requires a knowledge of creating and editing its UIs, and in the .Net installations it some kind of a Microsoft install project, which I'm not sure I can add any custom screen... I never tried to anyway).

 

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Hi, there are new versions on the website of Remote Operator, SD Card Suite, UniVision Licensing, Download Manager, etc, which now have the manifest that makes it request an administrator rights in order to start.

Ausman has already installed them, as far as I know.

 

Please tell me if the installation went fine for you, and the programs runs OK.

If you encounter some problems, like program doesn't start, or Ribbon is missing from the program, please tell me, so I can look in to it.

 

 

Thanks.

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Honestly, Windows 7, 8, 10 are here to stay. Everyone else is finding work arounds for running under Windows UAC. Isn't about time Unitronics does the same. Major company IT departments do not like user to run as adminstrators and they especially don't like UAC turned off. My plan is to replace the Visulogic controllers in my plant for this very reason.

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On some cases, the program requires to run as Administrator for doing things like writing to Registry (for example, for Remote Operator to start with Windows).

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So change how you're doing it - instead of writing to the Windows\CurrentVersion\Run registry, create a shortcut under the user's startup (<username>\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup) or just tell the admin/installer that they have to put a shortcut in programdata\microsoft\windows\start menu\programs\startup or something like that. 

We have guys on the mill floor trying to run this software to control equipment and it is not a good idea for them to have admin rights on the PC for a lot of reasons.

Another option would be to have a script that can be run as admin to give the specific registry permissions if you have to... but there should be "normal user" alternatives.  (CurrentUser_classes versus Root_Classes for example - ran into that with a different software package)

UAC is here to stay.  Our IT department uses it constantly - they do not log in as their admin accounts, they use "run as admin" all the time to manage the system, but the end users don't get that option because of the security and legal issues it can cause.  (User installs software the company is not licensed for and gets caught in an audit for example)

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On 12/6/2018 at 8:14 AM, Barry Patterson said:

We have guys on the mill floor trying to run this software to control equipment

I hear what you are saying Barry, but isn't your scenario more a "change things by having correct programming of the plc in the first place" type of thing?  Anyone on a mill floor should not be having access to the program that runs the plc, they should only have access to whatever is on the HMI.  If they can't change things sufficiently using that, then the user program is not correct and should be modified to suit all the needs.

cheers, Aus

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The scenario is:  Barry and I we need the operators to be able to run REMOTE OPERATOR software without having to have Admin Rights.  The operators are not changing PLC logic.

I am ok with Vislogic requiring Admin Rights.  the early versions 1.0.35.0  of Remote Operator didn't require Admin Rights.  We had the software automatically run on power up/ reboot.

I don't want to have to drive into the plant at 3am just to type in Admin credentials because of a power blip or PC needing reboot issue. 

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I understand the situation, and I could be wrong but it's likely that earlier versions of RO will work ok on later O/Ss.  edit:  But there might be issues with the program not knowing about the latest plc versions and how to display them.

There would possibly be nothing wrong with you using an early version, thus getting around the issue.  And if you don't have a copy, you could ask here for what version you want.

cheers, Aus

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