The defined hardware configuration does not support immediate output

[kratmel]

One of my customer need to replace old clutch controller.

I try to use V130-33-TR20.

START and BRAKE clutch + motor hardware with encoder (300 ppr) and home sensor present in my lab.

Then i try to program ladder for stop rotating shaft in zero position. O0 (RUN) relay output - for START, O2(STOP) relay output - for BRAKE. 

Result:

1. When only START clutch (RUN output) is used - overshoot is 110-120 pulse (1200 pulse per one shaft rotation present).

2. When use  START clutch and BRAKE clutch (RUN and STOP output) - overshoot is 17-20 pulse.

3. When use START clutch and BRAKE clutch,  2.5ms interrupt and immediate input and output -overshoot is 10-12 pulse.

4. When use START clutch and BRAKE clutch,  1.25ms interrupt and immediate input and output -overshoot is 7-10 pulse.

Relay outputs for clutch control do not have sufficient durability.

Then i use two solid state relay and try to use npn outputs O6 and O7 for control START and BRAKE.

And result

So the question is: how to recognize which of the PLC transistor outputs support the immediate output?

As i see HS output in V130-33-TR20 is not immediate output, however, is this the rule for all Vision PLCs integrated output and SNAP-IN output?

Yes i can write program for different PLC and compile for test ... but maybe some document present with transistor output possible modes.

[Ausman]

Kratmel, what happens if you use the HSO PWM or Step Control further along the tab row, and control them slightly differently?  In your screen shot you are selecting them in the normal output area.

I think that doing that will automatically assign them as immediate outputs.  Don't forget to remove the reference in the normal area.

cheers, Aus

[kratmel]

1 hour ago, Ausman said:

what happens if you use the HSO PWM or Step Control further along the tab row, and control them slightly differently? 

Tested, but i need Immediate output and if i use this ladder block for O6 or O7  error 705 happend.

I find solution for this application - desolder standard relay and solder solid state relay in V130 PLC.

But in future for this type application (approx 20000 output on/of in time of 8 hour) standard solid state (npn or pnp) needed with Immediate output future.

 

[Ausman]

I was intrigued enough to play a little with different 130 types.  If I choose a 33-T2 then any of the outputs used immediate don't throw up a compiler error.  I would think on your duty cycle that it would be sufficient.

I can't verify this, but it would seem that any 130 (and perhaps other Vision models) that has dedicated HSOs doesn't let you use them immediate, as the firmware only lets the system itself work "immediate" when the assignation in the  HSO areas is filled in.

So if you don't want to unsolder/resolder stuff (which I have done many times in the past as well!) then you could perhaps use a different 130 like the 33-T2.  Alternatively, instead of replacing a physical part,  you could possibly rearrange PCB tracks to change the thing being switched.  But it's all getting a bit fiddly when it appears that there is an easy solution.

As an aside, one of the jiggers I converted many years ago has now done over 2.3 billion switch actions and is still going strong. 

Of course, because I have written about it, it will now fail!    👉🌲

cheers, Aus

[kratmel]

Thank you for researching Aus.

For some reason it happens that the solution of the technical problem in the shortest possible time requires a non-standard approach.

I can order another controller and replace the TR20, but I probably won't have to do that.

Everything that is installed temporarily will work forever

I was just upset that I couldn't find an explanation for the 705"The defined hardware configuration does not support immediate output error"

and I couldn't find the document where solid state output possible working mode is  explained.

1 hour ago, Ausman said:

over 2.3 billion switch actions and is still going strong.

Regarding the durability of the relay - I have two identical V130-33-TR20 controllers that have different relays used at the outputs.

Accordingly, I am sure about OMRON relay in one of them, but for noname HF33 relays in another one, i found some cases of equipment failures.

Therefore, a solid state relay fully meets the needs of the customer and machine is already working and performing tasks.