jesuscardenas Posted October 27, 2022 Report Share Posted October 27, 2022 HELLO COMMUNITY, I need to perform a Master / slave synchronization task of two axes (two motors )(VISION V350 -T2 : The speed of the master is fixed and the slave must rotate at the same angular speed as the master, after that, the slave must make a correction to synchronize with the master. Each axis has an encoder and a synchronization sensor. So far I have managed to control the speed, taking the frequency reference of the Master encoder, (The master speed is fixed). I have also created a subroutine which converts a turn of encoder in a reading from 0 to 360 degrees (I have done it for both axes), I only need to do a position control; so that the slave motor performs a speed correction (increase or decrease) until the synchronization position is reached Does anyone have a way to achieve and maintain that final position correction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVP 2023 kratmel Posted October 27, 2022 MVP 2023 Report Share Posted October 27, 2022 In this topic i have tried to describe the limited capabilities of the PLC in terms of position and speed synchronization. This is a job for specialized motion controllers. I don't know how precisely you need to synchronize, but there are probably no simple solutions for even a very approximate synchronization. Perhaps the solution lies in the plane of mechanics - to apply rigid mechanical synchronization through toothed belts and gears? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVP 2023 Joe Tauser Posted October 29, 2022 MVP 2023 Report Share Posted October 29, 2022 The newest release of UniLogic supports servo axis synchronization of up to four axis using the EtherCAT communication option. Unfortunately, you have neither. A Vision probably doesn't have the processing speed you need to get the encoders to line up. What is your number of degree tolerance for the encoder positions matching? How fast is it spinning? (Master Frequency) How fast do the axes need to sync up? Joe T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesuscardenas Posted November 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 On 10/29/2022 at 3:14 PM, Joe Tauser said: The newest release of UniLogic supports servo axis synchronization of up to four axis using the EtherCAT communication option. Unfortunately, you have neither. A Vision probably doesn't have the processing speed you need to get the encoders to line up. What is your number of degree tolerance for the encoder positions matching? How fast is it spinning? (Master Frequency) How fast do the axes need to sync up? Joe T. On 10/29/2022 at 3:14 PM, Joe Tauser said: The newest release of UniLogic supports servo axis synchronization of up to four axis using the EtherCAT communication option. Unfortunately, you have neither. A Vision probably doesn't have the processing speed you need to get the encoders to line up. What is your number of degree tolerance for the encoder positions matching? How fast is it spinning? (Master Frequency) How fast do the axes need to sync up? Joe T. Hi Joe, the master axis rotates at 64.8 rpm (fixed speed) equivalent to 2700 pulses / second, read as encoder frequency (2500 PPR). The second axis has the same encoder (2500 ppr) . I made a PID routine so that the slave axis is equal to the master frequency, the only thing missing is the correction so that the two axes are synchronized. (and your inductive sensors can match), the timing accuracy should be at least acceptable. The system is a coated machine, which consists of a varnishing roller (slave axis) which prints varnish on aluminum sheets, these aluminum sheets are entered into the printing area through a transmission chain (master axis). The objective is that the impression coincides with the beginning of the aluminum sheets with a tolerance of 1 millimeter. I enclose a reference image Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesuscardenas Posted November 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 La tolerancia de grados deber ser máximo +/- 1 grado La sincronizacion inicial puede tomar un tiempo digamos de 10 segundos,aproximadamente 9 vueltas del esclavo. El eje maestro es comandado por un variadr de frecuencia a velocidad fija y el esclavo por un servomotor ,el cual utiliza una entrada analógica de 0-10 voltios como comando de velocidad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVP 2023 kratmel Posted November 2, 2022 MVP 2023 Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 In fact, this task is an example similar to the rotary knife or high speed labeling. I doubt you will be able to achieve the accuracy you want with used hardware and software. In such systems, not only speed PID is needed, but also position PID. In my opinion, you should consider mechanical synchronization between the large print shaft and the chain conveyor in your system. Accordingly, their speeds were the same, and the stop bar on the chain exactly periodically coincided with the start of printing on the cylinder. By the way, what type of servo driver is used for the large shaft? p.s. Please read some info in pdfs... PTiAN-03_Rotary Knife with the PTi210.pdf PTiAN-04_High Speed Labeling with the PTi210.pdf a-guide-to-motion-control-technology-systems-programming-iss2x-0704-0007-02x.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesuscardenas Posted November 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 Hello kratmel, I am using a DELTA ASDA A2 servo motor for the print roller. Originally both axes were linked by mechanical gears, but later the axes became independent, removing the gears in order to quickly power the printing roller (for rectification/repair services), This led to the task of performing an electronic synchronization Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVP 2023 kratmel Posted November 2, 2022 MVP 2023 Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 In this document http://iacommunication.deltaww.com/download/catalogue/2.Motion/ASDA-A2/DELTA_IA-ASDA_ASDA-A2_C_EN_20211015.pdf Electronic CAM (E-CAM) Function for used servo drive appear. Please read about this function and try to install ASDA-Soft software Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Castro Posted November 3, 2022 Report Share Posted November 3, 2022 10 hours ago, jesuscardenas said: Hello kratmel, I am using a DELTA ASDA A2 servo motor for the print roller. Originally both axes were linked by mechanical gears, but later the axes became independent, removing the gears in order to quickly power the printing roller (for rectification/repair services), This led to the task of performing an electronic synchronization He visto muchas aplicaciones en las cuales se sustituye la mecánica tradicional por "levas electrónicas". definitivamente es posible sin embargo no veo unitronics (vision series) como el hardware adecuado para esa aplicación. En temas de sincronización por servomotores incluso marcas de mayor renombre tienen hardware específico, los famosos "Motion controllers", simple y sencillamente se requiere de hardware mas "potente" para poder hacer los cálculos y corrección al vuelo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesuscardenas Posted November 3, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2022 I have managed to download the software, but apparently it tells me that in order to use the printer mode, I should have the printing roller as master and the transmission chain as slave. Here I would have a problem since the transmission chain is commanded by a variator of frequency Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVP 2023 kratmel Posted November 3, 2022 MVP 2023 Report Share Posted November 3, 2022 4 hours ago, jesuscardenas said: Here I would have a problem since the transmission chain is commanded by a variator of frequency I think you have little choice. Unfortunately, the equipment you have is not up to the task as stated above by many contributors. Therefore, you need to add one more delta servo to the circuit and apply the proposed application. Or look for a set of equipment from well-known manufacturers with a ready-made application - and this can cost a lot of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVP 2023 Ausman Posted November 3, 2022 MVP 2023 Report Share Posted November 3, 2022 On 11/3/2022 at 2:56 AM, jesuscardenas said: removing the gears in order to quickly power the printing roller The simple solution to your entire problem is to put the gears back in place but have relevant driven shafts (only one perhaps?) run through a dog clutch which lets you disconnect them as needed. cheers, Aus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Castro Posted November 4, 2022 Report Share Posted November 4, 2022 12 hours ago, jesuscardenas said: I have managed to download the software, but apparently it tells me that in order to use the printer mode, I should have the printing roller as master and the transmission chain as slave. Here I would have a problem since the transmission chain is commanded by a variator of frequency I've seen these applications (not with the hardware that you have ) in order to use the VFD as the Main system and a servo motor as a "cam follower" you need feedback, the VFD does not give you feedback actually it just adjust the frequency output to have a given velocity but it is an open loop, you can not actually know if the motor is ispinning at the real RPM that the VFD says, for that you need an encoder, then you can use the encoder feedback to set an slave servo motor to "follow" the main one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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