Attempting to pick a PLC + HMI controller

[PeterB]

Hi,

I'm new to Unitronics.  I like what I can see of the VisiLogic software.  I am trying to identify an appropriate Unitronics controller that can satisfy my general processing requirements. 

I'm planning to design a control for an oven application.  The oven will control on temperature, and will need to hold a set of possibly a dozen 'temperature recipes' available for the operator to choose from.  Each recipe must be able to be programmed with individual ramp and soak schedules at selected temperatures over elapsed process time.   I think I have ruled out the Samba controllers because I will additionally be data logging possibly a dozen or more thermocouples and will need to add expanded I/O capability.  From what I read at this forum, it makes more economic sense to move up to a Vision series control.   

What I don't know at this point is whether the Vision series can be programmed for ramp and soak control recipes, as well as be able to handle operator recipe selection from multiple such individual recipes.   Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Flex727]

Yes, the Vision PLCs should be able to do what you want. Additional questions:

- What is your budget?

- What size HMI were you thinking?

- Do you want touchscreen?

- Do you want a color HMI?

- Do have any communications requirements (e.g. Ethernet)?

[kratmel]

From my experience, the use of the Samba controller is appropriate for economical one- and two-zone control. There are only two possible PID loops.

Increasing the number of sensors requires more inputs to control and more outputs to send a PWM signal. Accordingly, in the Vision series, 24 PID loops  are available and all the capabilities you need for recording and programming heating profiles.

For the first attempts, you should definitely take a Vision series controller.

Ask your distributor about expansion options and you can easily expand the number of control channels.

Again, from experience, working with recipes and profiles is easier with a larger screen. Your task is to find a balance between the money spent and the result obtained.

[PeterB]

Thanks for the quick response, Flex727 and kratmel.

Your responses are a big help letting me know that I'm at least playing in the right neighborhood.   I've tentatively budgeted $2,000 for data acquisition and control, but as I narrow down the design it is going to be whatever gets the job done.   I will need touchscreen, but screen size and color seem less important, at least at the moment - although I do take note of kratmel's recommendation for investing in a larger screen size.  I am going to want remote access to a PC via ethernet for the controller's process status and it's data logging.  I have no idea if this is even possible, or economically reasonable, but smartphone access could be helpful.

 

[Flex727]

12 hours ago, PeterB said:

I will need touchscreen, but screen size and color seem less important, at least at the moment - although I do take note of kratmel's recommendation for investing in a larger screen size.  I am going to want remote access to a PC via ethernet for the controller's process status and it's data logging.  I have no idea if this is even possible, or economically reasonable, but smartphone access could be helpful.

Based on this, my first recommendation would be the V700. It has a 7" color touchscreen with a widescreen format. If you should decide you need a larger screen, then the V1040 (10" screen) or V1210 (12" screen) are available. With all the Vision PLCs you can access the PLC through Ethernet  from a PC or your phone. The V700 can be in constant communication with 8 other devices simultaneously over Ethernet and also has serial comms, if needed.

[PeterB]

Thank you, Flex727.  I appreciate your advice and will begin looking at the controllers you suggest.  One thing I just noticed: When I attempt to download the Unitronics' Remote Operator onto my Samsung Galaxy S22 (Model SM-s901U) phone I receive the following message from the Google Play Store: "This app isn't available for your device because it was made for an older version of Android".

??  Not sure what's wrong there.  Looks to me like perhaps Unitronics has not kept their Android app up to date with the Android  OS?

[Fernando Castro]

I have a similar application (up to 8 analog signals, and recipe-based control with ramping functions) the recipe side will require some clever codding depending on the length of it because you will be limited by the number of objects that you can fit in one single screen. I developed the same software for 2 vision series PLC: v700 & v570 at the beginning I thought v700 was more modern but now I prefer v570.

3 hours ago, Flex727 said:

Based on this, my first recommendation would be the V700. It has a 7" color touchscreen with a widescreen format. If you should decide you need a larger screen, then the V1040 (10" screen) or V1210 (12" screen) are available. With all the Vision PLCs you can access the PLC through Ethernet  from a PC or your phone. The V700 can be in constant communication with 8 other devices simultaneously over Ethernet and also has serial comms, if needed.

I have no idea on prices because the hardware already existed whenever I took the role but, in my opinion, v570 is way better than v700 given the following scenario:

v700 is bigger yes, but the keyboard is actually smaller than the v570. 

If you are going to use SD cards to store logs, trends and recipes. the SD card screen function is not properly implemented on the v700 it looks very tiny.

The only reason I recommend the v700 is if you are going to use more than 4 ethernet connections at the same time.

I will say that 1 socket for file transfer (SD card explorer), 1 for remote operator, 1 to send all process variables to a centralized location and an extra one for any other feature is more than enough for most scenarios.

 

Also, I think that on v570 the ethernet card is an add on that needs to be purchased apart.

 

 

[Flex727]

27 minutes ago, Fernando Castro said:

I have no idea on prices

Typically you can get the V700 for nearly the same price as the V570 + Ethernet card, as the V700 already has Ethernet built in.

28 minutes ago, Fernando Castro said:

v700 is bigger yes, but the keyboard is actually smaller than the v570.

Yes, actually the keyboard and other items under control of firmware (as opposed to the application) are the same number of pixels, but the V700 screen is higher resolution. The higher resolution allows for more detail and sharper images, but there is that (IMO minor) tradeoff that Fernando mentions.

[kratmel]

For furnaces, I created interfaces with various PLCs. Considering the small size of the built-in keyboards in small PLCs V350 and V700, I use separate large buttons + and - connected to the discrete inputs of the PLC to set the temperature, time, and step number.

As practice has shown, operators (who do not like to constantly change numbers on a small touch keyboard) like this solution.

The "Step in range" function for the ladder perfectly operates with the right numbers without allowing you to exceed the specified limits.

For example - 4 buttons only for temperature and time selection on Samba display.

[Joe Tauser]

6 hours ago, PeterB said:

??  Not sure what's wrong there.  Looks to me like perhaps Unitronics has not kept their Android app up to date with the Android  OS?

Send this Android question to Official Unitronics Support at support@unitronics.com.   They will know. 

Weigh the importance of remote connectivity in your project.  The  Vision series is still my go-to as I think it's easier to program, but if you really want/need to hook into this controller over the network you'll want to look at UniStream.  It has web hosting, VNC server, SSL email, and a myriad of other "computer-esque" features built in.

Joe T.

[Ausman]

As an aside, it is worth noting that not all Vision controllers work with the remote access app for phones.  I only use 130s and they don't.  It is annoying!!  🙄

Lift from the app guide:

Supported Controllers
Mobile device minimum OS version:    Android 4.0+, API 14+    iOS 7+   
Supported Controllers: V350, V430, V700, V570, V1040, V1210, SM35, SM43, SM70

cheers, Aus

[PeterB]

Thank you, Fernando, and kratmel, for your advice on controller selection.  I have taken Joe T's suggestion and submitted a ticket to Unitronics Support.   Haven't heard back yet, but will let you know the response.   I do have operational considerations that would make mobile phone access helpful and am beginning to elevate such a feature in my selection criteria.

I find Ausman's "lift from the app guide" very interesting.  It discusses "minimum" OS version Android 4.0+, which would seem to imply that any versions higher would be supported.  My Samsung Galaxy S22 says my "One UI version" is 5.1.  My phone recently began calling its updates: "UI updates".  I'm thinking Android may have introduced a significant software change recently.  I'm wondering if One UI 5.1 is a follow on to Android 4.0?  My phone additionally say "Android version: 13" - for whatever that's worth.  

Ausman: I have searched but have not been able to locate at the Unitronics website, the "app guide" you referenced .  Could you provide a link or navigation to locate the guide you are referring .  I would like to study it further. 

Thanks, All.

[PeterB]

Oh.  I just located an entire discussion forum on Remote Operator at this User Community Forum:

https://forum.unitronics.com/forum/15-remote-operator/

I will go study those discussions.

[Ausman]

https://www.unitronicsplc.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Unitronics_Remote_Operator_AppQuickStart.pdf

cheers, Aus