Urgent topic ( NO INFO PASSWORD )

[Ausman]

I'm actually a little intrigued as to WHY it works.  It wasn't exactly what I was initially suggesting!

In theory what is being written there to 253 is not actually Dec 1111.

Can someone please investigate this further.

[Jeff164]

FWIW - This issue has consumed most of my day and even after emails and a phone call with Uni support I didnt get solution until I came here.   

I first found this on a Samba 70, but I also have Samba 35's and some Vision 700 and Vision 1210 in my customers' fleet, I hope it behaves the same way across the Visilogic supported units. 

For me:   I was not able to get functionality back until I changed the info mode password to something OTHER than 1111.   Here you can see its 1212 and it worked.   As a test I put it back to 1111 and after a reboot got the same error and PLC in stop mode.   SI-253 tracked the actual value true. 

I tried several different password and the only commonality I found was that I could NOT use 1111.   I really dont need or want to be setting up more onscreen editiable functions for this, ethernet com ports will alsway be behind an independant stand-alone VPN security router or else they wont get connected.   

Maybe this will help someone else.  

 

Jeff

[DanT]

Hi All,

Got a New Samba from the Box and started playing around.

This PLC has the Unitronics default program in it  so probably Visilogic 9.8.96

In  Visilogic 9.8.96 the Info Password is 1111 by default, and works anytime.

If you change the Info Mode Password,  to something else like 1112, you CANNOT change it back to 1111.  ( interesting)

Upgraded to VisiLogic 9.9.0 and upgraded  the OS in the PLC.   Same as with 9.8.96

Upgraded to VisiLogic 9.9.1 and upgraded the OS in the PLC

Now the message about No Password appears.

Go Online with the PLC and SI253 says DEC 1111 for the password.

Downloaded a test program,  unable to run because of the  Info Mode Password not Valid (1111  is no longer valid)

Added a  new net  to the program - Net 1     -|  |- (SB2)   ----  Store  1112  in SI253   

Downloaded program  --  program  runs!

SO :   YOU MUST Create a NEW 4 Digit Password for INFO Mode in SI253.    DEC 1111  is NO Longer a Valid password for Info mode - Period!

Note 1:  DEC 1111 = H 0457 NO  LONGER an Acceptable Info Mode Passwword !   Password entry is in DEC  Mode. H1111   =   DEC 4369 is a Good Password  --  when you enter from the keypad as 4369  (0x0000 1111)

Note  2 :  If you go Online and change the password to say 1234 (DEC) then it works as 1234, but try to change it back  to 1111 ( DEC) the entry is NOT accepted.

Gone are the days  when anyone could walk up to a Vision PLC and get into Info Mode with 1111 most of the time.

Just another Password we have to record to get into  get past the new gatekeeper.

Repeat:  YOU MUST Create a NEW 4 Digit Password for INFO Mode in SI 253.    DEC 1111  is NO Longer a Valid password for Info mode.

VisiLogic 9.9.1  forces the progrmmer to create  a new password.

DanT

[kratmel]

Hi DanT.

Do you try to Power OFF -- PowerON  in your setup after change password via Visilogic latest vesion "Set Info Password" FB?

Using experience, you first tried to change the password in the previous version (1111 to 1112).

I think that the user who, after unpacking the new controller (with default application), immediately changed the firmware to the latest one (without first changing the password to something other than 1111 in standard version) has a problem with the password to the information mode,

even if he correctly used the first rung and the command "Set Info Password" FB.

This needs to be checked - refuted or confirmed.

 

[Flex727]

19 hours ago, kratmel said:

I think that the user who, after unpacking the new controller (with default application), immediately changed the firmware to the latest one (without first changing the password to something other than 1111 in standard version) has a problem with the password to the information mode,

even if he correctly used the first rung and the command "Set Info Password" FB.

I think this may be my problem. I didn't use a new PLC, but one with the older firmware and updated to the new firmware and loaded a 9.9.01 program with the correct Set Info Password FB, but without first changing the default Info password. I think this locks it up. I haven't had the opportunity to test this thoroughly yet, but will later this week.

[DanT]

HI  Kratmel  and all;

I took a SM35  with OS  4.12.38( VisiLogic 9.9.0 )    

      Has a simple test program, and INFO password is    1111      No issues getting into info mode with 1111.

Upgraded to   OS 4.13.26 ( VisiLogic 9.9.1 )

    BANG!  - On reboot   Stop,   No Info Password.     Go Online --    PLC is in Stop Mode  -- Try to put PLC into RUN Mode - No Go,  Try Init and Reset - No Go

     Try Info Mode with  1111,  OK it works - This time.    -- But I already have a program in the PLC and I want to run it.

           OK, In info Mode,  Operands,   SI,  Scroll thru to    line  252 and in SI 253 is  1111,    Changed to   1112

              Now  tried   RUN, RESET,  Init and RESET    -- PLC would Not Start.

              Powered down and back up,     PLC stopped, No  INFO Password.   Checked   SI 253   --  1111  , so above did not work.

             Downloaded a program ( not attempting to change the Info Mode Password )     Program will not run,  Stop- No Info Mode Password

             Downloaded  same program ,     -----   BUT    ---  in Net 1   did  this         -|  |- (SB2)   ----  Store  1112  in SI253   

                                     and WOW !  the prgram now runs,   PLC IS HAPPY.   

                                     Go Online and SI253  is    1112  ( as set)

 

        Going further,  Installed a NEW  Program,  Info Mode Password   Not   Set up   -  Left as 1112

                      New Program does not run,  get the    Stop - No Info Mode Password.           Check  SI253    1111   and 1111  gets into Info Mode, but no RUN.

                                                                      Yes,   SI253 got changed back to 1111 ! 

                    Modified program  --       Downloaded  same program,    BUT in Net 1   did  this         -|  |- (SB2)   ----  Store  1112  in SI253   

                                    WOW !      Now the program runs,  and SI 253 = 1112 ( the NEW Info Mode Password.)

 

OK, Bottom Line :    VisiLogic 9.9.1   and the New OS Installed in the PLC  FORCES  the PROGRAMMER  t o SET  a  NEW  INFO  MODE Password !!!!

                                                  Password is a 4 Digit Number, But  CANNOT BE  1111

         ****    IN  THE   PROGRAM  program    We MUST now Set the Info Mode Password  for THIS  program.   *******

                                             ( Just as we set up the Communications parameters  in the first few nets, )

                                           ( Overwriting a  PLC program in a PLC upgraded to 9.9.1   without adding a Info Mode Password net  in the ladder  WILL NOT RUN !!!! )

    Written as I  was actually testing a SM35-J-RA22  Vision PLC.

DanT

 

 

 

 

[Joe Tauser]

@DanT

Forward this to support.  

Joe T.

[kratmel]

Thank you  DanT for the detailed answer and the conducted experiment. But -|  |- (SB2)   ----  Store  1112  in SI253   rung used.

However, I am tormented by the question whether the command specially designed for changing the password "Set Info Password" FB works correctly.

According to the result obtained by Flex727 the behavior is abnormal.

[Ausman]

I feel compelled to say that moderators and others have been chasing the security issues at great length for some time.  I've copied in a response from the Creators about whether the password HAS to be set via the FB or Store.

The info password must be updated from the ladder.

It can be changed from INFO or VisiLogic operands, but it will not be saved after powerup.

This was open to interpretation, but mine was that it means that unless the FB is used, it won't be saved, if it IS used it IS.  But there is also other info around essentially saying "the password needs to be set each time on boot" which just confuses the issue as it means it isn't saved.   Dan's thorough workout adds to the information available. 

To quote Joe T..."empirical work is best"!!  I can't do this at present, someone else can play with the FB?

[Gabriel Franco]

This is the way I´ve done it, both in new units as well as updating applications and had not had any issues.

Unlike the standard value of 1111, I've been using an MI with a different power-up value. 

 

[Flex727]

Just got back to this problem. Here's my situation:

I have a V1210 PLC that had 9.8.96 firmware installed and a 9.8.96 project downloaded. I upgraded the project to 9.9.01, added the required FB for Info Password. As expected, when I tried to download the project, VisiLogic required a firmware upgrade which I performed. When the firmware upgrade completed, the PLC went into STOP Mode due to "No INFO Password". This was not unexpected since the new program with the required FB was not yet downloaded.

I downloaded the new project successfully and at the conclusion VisiLogic notified me that the PLC was in STOP Mode and did I wish to go to RUN? Yes I did, but the PLC once again went into STOP with the same error message. I went online and tried to change the INFO Mode password manually by changing the value of SI 253, but SI 253 is locked and will not change. The PLC is now essentially bricked.

I downgraded the PLC firmware to 9.8.96 successfully and surprisingly all was well again, even with the 9.9.01 project file installed. I was able to now change SI 253 at will. I changed it to '4444' and proceeded to upgrade again to 9.9.01.

Once 9.9.01 firmware was installed, all of the above repeated exactly. PLC bricked.

I created a new project from scratch with only the required INFO Password FB and nothing else. PLC liked that just fine and restarted without error.

Tried to download the previous project and we're back to being bricked. I checked SI 253 and it has reverted back to '1111' and cannot be changed.

Downloaded a new project again with only the INFO Password FB and all was good again.

Maybe it's just something about that original project, so let's try another 9.8.96 project. I opened another previously created 9.8.96 project, added the INFO Password FB, downloaded, and it worked fine.

My conclusion is there is something weird about that original project that I was trying to upgrade to 9.9.01. I didn't write that project (it appears poorly written anyway), but was only attempting to upgrade it per a customer request. I'm lost as to what it could be.

 

 

[DanT]

Hi Flex;

With   9.9.1   and the New OS installed in the PLC,   the PLC will  LOCK OUT  ( STOP)   for No Info Mode Password.

        1111  is No Longer a Valid Password   to use ( even if you try to set it up)

You MUST add   a Net to the Ladder to define the   NEW ( your choice)  Info Mode Password.

              ( Valid password range   1000  - 9999    except 1111 )

There are 2 ways,    On Power up cycle SB 2,   Store the New password into SB253.

                        Or   as Kratmel suggests/does -    Uitls - Set Information   Mode Password

The password is loaded on each download to the PLC.  Some how, the download sequence  detects the new password and allows the program to run.

             ( Probably looks at  SI253 and it is  1111   then  not good,  STOP)

     Without the new password  in the ladder, the program will not run and the PLC will remain in STOP  !!

The information is not obvious in Help, you have to search around for it. -- I sent an email to support  the creators about this.

DanT

[Flex727]

29 minutes ago, DanT said:

Some how, the download sequence  detects the new password and allows the program to run.

It appears to me that the O/S allows one single scan before it will check the password.

31 minutes ago, DanT said:

With   9.9.1   and the New OS installed in the PLC,   the PLC will  LOCK OUT  ( STOP)   for No Info Mode Password.

        1111  is No Longer a Valid Password   to use ( even if you try to set it up)

You MUST add   a Net to the Ladder to define the   NEW ( your choice)  Info Mode Password.

              ( Valid password range   1000  - 9999    except 1111 )

There are 2 ways,    On Power up cycle SB 2,   Store the New password into SB253.

                        Or   as Kratmel suggests/does -    Uitls - Set Information   Mode Password

Yes, I've done all that. For some reason this particular project file locks the INFO Mode password to 1111 and will not allow any change (this is a customer supplied project file that I did not write, but was asked to upgrade to 9.9). I have searched to entire project for anything that might cause this, but find nothing. I think I'm going to have to send it to support for their review.

[DanT]

Hi Flex;

Ok,, seems you do not have the ladder program available - so   back off the 9.9.0   /  9.9.1   OS,  downgrade  to 9.8.96

Hidden away in help is this :       ( Contents - Utilities - Information Mode -  Info System Operands ( Green)   )

     SI 253    Password :  Info Mode

Note that at every power-up, the default password to Info Mode, 1111, is restored. To maintain a different password after power-up, use SB 2-Power-up as a condition to store the desired password value into SI 253. The password may also be modified by accessing the controller via VisiLogic, then running On-line Test mode and changing the value. This value will be erased at power-up.

 

DanT

[Flex727]

1 hour ago, DanT said:

Ok,, seems you do not have the ladder program available - so   back off the 9.9.0   /  9.9.1   OS,  downgrade  to 9.8.96

Yes I do have the ladder program available and I did exactly that. When I downgrade the O/S to 9.8.96, I am able to change SI 253 at will. I placed the appropriate ladder functions in the program to set the INFO Mode password to something other than 1111 then attempted to download into the PLC (V1210) with 9.9.01. VisiLogic, of course, required the firmware upgrade, which I completed successfully. Now when I download the program into the PLC, it downloads, but then the PLC goes straight into Stop Mode with the No INFO Mode password error. At this point, SI 253 has reverted to 1111 and cannot be changed.

I have a little more testing to do before I send the project file to Support, but I'll report back when they give me an answer.

[kratmel]

Hi Flex727

Maybe I know the reason why the project proposed by the customer does not work after upgrade.

When working with projects in my lab, students often rename a "! Main Routine" subroutine in a basic clean project. Experiments have shown that the behavior of the project after rename this routine sometimes is unpredictable. 

Check whether the "! Main Routine" is not named differently in the project and some other program is named similarly to the "! Main Routine" (the ! Main Routine cannot be deleted).

These are just my guesses, but I puzzled for a long time why a seemingly correct project loaded into the PLC gave unpredictable behavior. A step-by-step check yielded nothing and only moving the code to a new project solved the problem. Next, we compared the working and non-working project and the only difference was that the "! Main Routine" was renamed.

P.S. Testing showed that it is impossible to put "!" at the beginning of the name of an arbitrary routine. Therefore, I think this sign is important in the name of the main subroutine.

[Flex727]

1 hour ago, kratmel said:

When working with projects in my lab, students often rename a "! Main Routine" subroutine in a basic clean project. Experiments have shown that the behavior of the project after rename this routine sometimes is unpredictable. 

Great thought, Kratmel. Looking at the project, it doesn't appear to have been changed, unless it has been changed at some point in history and changed back.

[Flex727]

Okay, I've solved my problem. I was not aware that not only does the new O/S refuse to allow '1111', it also refuses to allow any repeating numbers. Not only '1111', but also '2222', '3333', '4444', etc. are disallowed. To my knowledge, the documentation has not been updated to reflect this.