Ausman

A topic on the forum got me thinking again on the PC sillyness around. We're heading to not being able to use Male or Female as a name for blokes or girlies. So I ponder the discussions that are going to go on at my refrigeration supply shop.... "Hi, I'd like a piece of brass with a 1/2" pointy-out thread on one end and a goey-in thread on the other end. The pointy-out end has to have 45° angles that match up to another piece of brass that will have a goey-in thread and angle matching the 45° of the other goey-out bit. The other bit of that piece will run through to a pointy-out guide stub that will have holes drilled through it around the pointy-out end." "Huh???" goes the counter staff. 🤔 Instead of "I'd like a 1/2" MFL x FFL union with frost nut please". "Sure, Aus". Seriously, in Orstralia this is going to create so much fun and laughter in all the traditionally "blokey" trades that always use such stuff. And believe you me, the growing number of girls that are taking up such trades will be in on the laughter as well. Just ridiculous. The worst bit is that someone somewhere gets paid enormous sums to come up with such silly concepts that somehow filter through to laws. And incidentally, regarding the original "retarded" word that started this for me, I squizzed at a few online dictionaries and there was absolutely no mention of retarded being in common use for engines or indeed anything that uses precise timing for operations. As in "retarded/advanced" timing. Therefore, wokeness in the organisation has completely focussed on the "derogatory" aspect completely ignoring another common usage. I guess they're bowing to pressure to eliminate the word altogether by stealth. Good thing I've got old paper printed dictionaries to prove such things to "influenced" youngies who can't think for themselves. cheers, Aus

A one scan set? Or the number of scans between the physical actions? This might be the issue, in that you're asking over many scans for an action that should only be asked once.

Hi Joel, so the obvious question is what model, what firmware and what version of Unilogic are you now using? Different from your first two? If your previous program worked fine, don't change anything unless it is absolutely necessary. cheers, Aus

Thanks for the thanks! If the old system does come out, don't dispose of it. Some members here might like it for historical value. cheers, Aus

I don't use Unistream and in reading your posts you are way above my pay grade! However, one simplistic thought...... zipping the files and putting them on a specific users' read only folder on a NAS or similar would likely do it. Whether you can do this automatically on the plc I don't know, but you could certainly do it externally. But any sort of data is open to manipulation by determined users.....the same way machine users endlessly try to get around safety systems to make their job "easier". 😞 cheers, Aus.

Hi Tozo, my initial thought is to check file permissions. If you are using C drive for your interactions, Windoze has added all sorts of odd restrictions to C access over the last few years, and perhaps this odd behaviour is a result of such restrictions. Check the restrictions present on the new files, use them from somewhere else etc. But it also may be a program quirk that others will chime in on......... cheers, Aus

+1 to all the other suggestions. So it is asked every second, but will go to 9 seconds if there is an error, thus mucking up the entire procedure. You MUST allow for all possible timing TOTALS in arranging your calls. Your calling methods and intervals can include using SBs to check whether calls were done ok. Even then I'd allow a few scans to eliminate potential buffer issues. I do 1 retry at most, but many here don't even do a retry...if the thing is failing it will do it again and be noticeable, and needs to be fixed. It all comes back to how critical comms speed is to machine operation. For my stuff I do fixed speed calling to at most perhaps 20 devices in a repeating loop, with the interval between each call slightly longer than the total possible time that will occur if there is an error on the previous call. cheers, Aus

Sooo annoying, but so easy to do and miss in checks. My method after years of doing this is an excel sheet that lists all the I/O and other connection types, locations, cable colour and ID number, and is changed to background of green by screen, or physical mark on a printed version, on final check before power up. Including checking connection direction of clamping diodes if not using back to back types. And...even then I've been occasionally caught out by unlabelled terminals where you're looking at a printed description on the body some way from the terminal, particularly in cramped locations. Count terminals along from the end but still make an error....poop. Double checking is a must. cheers, Aus

1). Using the twisted pair from an ethernet line.......Is it separated completely and just sitting there as a twisted pair in open space? Or is using a twisted pair alongside the other 3 pairs? I have found through experience that you MUST use dedicated 485 shielded twisted, as either single pair for data only, or 2 pair for data and power. 2). Allowing the cable limitation. I can't quickly see how often you are polling. I think this is likely your main issue. How many retries are you doing? If anything faults on the line, it will do a retry and if this all overlaps into the next ask, the system will fail. It looks like you are polling every second, but your timeout is 2. 3). Speed. I would only be going with 9600 on such a length. Don't forget 485 can't move a lot of data quickly. Ensure you don't have ID clashes, change everything to the same speed and settings, and see how it goes. Perhaps in trying different speeds you didn't change everything correctly. If you do get stable conditions on 9600, you can then try to go up incremently to find an optimum. Baby steps first...teach it to eat, burp and fart. 4). Ensure that all the separated systems are deriving their control power from the same phase, and share common earthing. Ensure the (new) cable shield (once fitted) is correctly earthed. A few things to check/try. cheers, Aus

But I think what Zebioo is saying is that although the above detail says max 24, the previous Visi version in use didn't bring it up as a compile error, but the new one does. Perhaps the restriction IS "artificial", but if that is what the makers have specified as the max, then that is what the programmer should implement. cheers, Aus

If you're really patient you could try changing the hardware code +1 each time, but not include numbers already in use. And take aim at more likely numbers. I'd also have a "virgin" copy of the program to always start again with, as having a wrong number might permanently upset something. Doing this should get you there in the end, and actually might not take that long. You will perhaps need a soft brick wall for you to bang your head against whilst doing it, and some good coffee. And another but.....but only if the code is actually able to be recognised by the main program, which may not be there anyway. I guess you've already looked, but is there any way to reference the existing codes to some other accessible part of the software? As Joe is vaguely hinting at, perhaps you need to stop all attempts and put in something newer. But if you have a few of these things, and they are working fine, then I do see why persevering is worth it. One of my favourite sayings is that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I have some DOS programmed PLCs still running fine, many many years after first install. As a matter of historical value, how big is the software? Perhaps it should go up here on the forum for posterity? Also out of curiosity, does the program start itself (via a bat perhaps) into cmd, or do you have to do it yourself. The reason for the ask is that perhaps it wouldn't hurt for it to be run as admin. Without knowing the old capabilities, perhaps an upload PLC to PC is lockable on this system. And yes......Unitronics, like many other firms, does name communication direction descriptions differently. As in, you download something from the web to your browser/PC. But download in Visilogic is send it to the PLC from the PC. So the description applies from the PLC's point of view. cheers, Aus

It might be worth trying to see if the filename, machine model no, or manufacturer name is the password. I've seen this very occasionally on some machines. Seems dumb but in some ways is clever. Is info mode accessible and not passworded? If you can get into Info, you can find the project's name to then try. How complex is the machine? If it is not too sophisticated you are likely much better off finding a local programmer to look at what you need and redo the program for you, with tweaks you know would be useful after having it for a while. If very complex I'd still be trying to source the original project somehow. cheers, Aus

Look at point 2) in this topic: https://forum.unitronics.com/topic/6229-ongoing-24-topics-almost-worth-pinning/ I'm not sure if the EXF shares the issue, but it is a solution. Others can chime in if there is something better. cheers, Aus

Have a read of this topic. There is a vague chance that the way the software you have is arranged in a similar fashion, and the topic's answers might offer a solution for you to try. https://forum.unitronics.com/topic/3632-visiologic-ver-9760-build-0-v350-35-tu24/#comment-36546 cheers, Aus

You are likely in big trouble. I'm assuming from what you are saying that with a new battery the 1210 is running it's program, but variable parameters crucial to operations, that you can't enter/edit via screens have been lost. My first suggestion would be to search across all computers in your organisation to see if you have a *.vlp file anywhere. This is the program in the 1210 and may have been originally supplied to you, but I doubt it. Also, is there an SD card in the 1210? If so, what files are on it? Can't even find any old employees of the company who would know? Other firms in your line of business using the same machine might know?

*.vlp

All of this information and a lot more is in the Help files.

FWIW, I had huge trouble with sensors in a large commercial indoor heated swimming pool environment until I started giving all their internals a liberal spray of circuit board lacquer when replacing with new. I know this doesn't directly relate to displays, but perhaps it's not the displays themselves, it's the pcb they're connecting to. Were the failed units disassembled and visually inspected? Would a coat of lacquer over everything have helped? The sensors in the above were actually built to withstand the conditions, but the rest of the gizmo wasn't. As for "fresh" air environment, it can be exceedingly difficult to get good air in some locations. I've seen enclosures with fan driven passive heat exchanger systems used in remote "middle of nowhere"gold mine sites, don't know how well they work and you still have the display "open" anyway as that's what it's for, likely allowing gas exchange into the enclosure through miniscule gaps. At those same gold mine sites repairing aircons "en masse", I also observed the aluminium finning on evaporators was mostly eaten away, leaving just the copper cores there, despite all sorts of scrubber systems in the "clean testing room" the systems were servicing. Some places simply do nasty things to electronics...and humans... and clean room air quality is really dictated by how much expense and trouble is warranted and installed. I was happy I wasn't at these sites for too long...... cheers, Aus

Hi Paul, I haven't used Swapper for some years now. As I essentially have a low number of sites I work at, I made the decision to switch all the Visions to 9.8.65 and it made things so much easier. ( I have yet to switch to the latest "more secure" version, wanting/waiting for it to be proven....) However, the explanations in both the referenced Topics above pretty much state the process, but I'm a little vague on complete intricacies. They were complete installs done on a system that was devoid of anything Vision related. My favourite program for achieving this is Revo Uninstaller, and I use the paid version. Also note my comment.....Then start again with the different installs you need to have on your system, running all of them as Admin. I would use the latest swapper. This will be tedious doing all the previous version installs over again etc, but I think it is worth a try. Particularly the word "tedious" as all the copies must be done as Admin install if you haven't done them correctly! The virgin copy goes in a folder with the version name.....and all those version folders went under a folder called "Swapper Virgins" or similar. My current method for very occasionally having to use any different Visi version is to mostly do it via a virtual machine, and I'm happy to do a different VM that is just that version. But..... FYI. I now have 3 different PCs running different Windoze versions available on my desk, one is the up to date main system for everyday use, and the others for when I need to work with much older PLC or sensor programs, right down to DOS, that simply refuse to work correctly under more modern OS's, even as a VM or dosbox etc. (Re the VM comment above....both of these other systems each have a different older Visilogics version that I used to use) I used to have a single PC running caddies to enable easy changing of C drive to load those different Windows versions when needed, along with external power switching of drives to disable internal drives that would have been affected by running the other versions, but sadly discovered mid last year that the one failing of this seemingly terrific idea is when there is a complete motherboard failure. It was no fun. 😱 Many on the forum also have different laptops doing the same thing for field work. Hope that helps. cheers, Aus

You need to goggles "convert 232 to TTL" and vice versa to find a whole host of adapters that might work.

@Cara Bereck Levy @Saragani As a non-Unistream user it does seem unacceptable to me that a faulty SD will cause a total boot halt. Surely it wouldn't be too hard to have the PLC able to continue to function when it sees/expects a card in place but can't access it properly. I understand that the card use might be a major part of someone's programming, but perhaps there needs to be an option for the user to dictate whether to ignore SD failure and run with OS driven popup screen alert or OS boot halt with screen alert. The second one seems to be what is occurring, but without an alert. @greml1n It would likely be useful in this case to know how much card use was being done. cheers, Aus

And Van, welcome. FYI, the program you are using is Visilogic, not Unilogic. Just letting you know, as incorrect referencing could cause confusion because it is a totally different system from Unitronics. Kratmel's answer is the solution, but the reason as such is that Linearisation will continue to do it's instructed outputs if input parameters go outside the supposed maximum or minimum. this is especially confusing if using 4-20ma inputs. You may also like to get this to help with your learning: https://forum.unitronics.com/topic/3540-linearization-calculator-for-all/ cheers, Aus

And another one to prove this New Year's resolution of retaining clear thinking went astray a little. I dislike using "off the shelf" mobiles with the likes of goggles etc incessantly talking to HO, amongst other things I find undesirable. So I have a little W7 laptop set up for adb work on suitable phones, it does nothing else. I've recently had to get a new phone, and in setting it up I couldn't understand why the laptop was suddenly refusing to let me do Shift Right click open command prompt here. Hunted for a while and then gave up, sourced cmd direct and then pointed it to the right folder. Worked, but a bit tedious. Anyone who's done this with adb trialling ROMs knows you can do it a few times to find the one you really like out of a number available. And each time the laptop refused the option. I had the laptop sitting on the desk in front of my main screens (when I say little...I meant it!) and last night it occurred to me that I was being so stoooopid. For accessing a few computers onto the same screens, I don't use a full on KVM switch as it gave issues with different monitor capabilities from the 3 innately different computers in use. I use a USB switcher that only handles the mouse and keyboard, and switch the monitors manually to whatever input I need. So...I am used to using the same keyboard and mouse regardless of what I am looking at. I guess you have just figured it out as well.......I was pressing Shift on the main keyboard, not the laptop. But was correctly using the other mouse direct connected to the laptop. Duuuhhh. It was absolutely incredible, fantabulous and amazing that once I pressed Shift on the laptop, the process worked correctly........ 🤪 If only there was an OEM reset button on the side of my head, that would retain most info but reset the occasionally scrambled stuff.

In a world of troubles, I hope that everyone enjoys the Christmas period as best they can. Aus

Gabriel, I saw this answer but thought it might have been a misunderstanding as I already use Hercules occasionally but haven't seen this ability. I've been so busy it delayed me asking the question....does Herc also do virtual serial port? Or is the reference to the piece of hardware mentioned on that page? cheers, Aus