Ausman

Thanks for checking Dan. @Cara Bereck Levy Please include the use of the MI in the I/O manual. cheers, Aus

Hi Dan, the first thing my brain asks is what is the length of the pulse? Does it change with frequency, or is it a fixed number of ms? So I looked up about KYZ and found this site which explains it well: http://solidstateinstruments.com/newsletters/kyz-pulses.php As it appears that the length of pulse does change with frequency on an approx 50/50 relationship, and given the relatively slow nature of the switch, at first I wouldn't even bother and see how it goes only using standard inputs. If bounce does seem to be appearing, still use a standard input but linked to a TE set at 20ms, which should effectively give you a debounce good enough and cover all scenarios. Another possible method would be to use something similar to my suggestion below, and progressively tally the result, but it might not be as accurate. Perhaps read the entire topic. cheers, Aus

kratmel, I used something like this ages ago and it worked fine in the instance because 8 lots of "speaking" weren't very long and only needed to be mono. The time limit and mono on this style can be an issue in my situations. Visco, how are you planning to trigger things? Serial or multiplex the inputs? If you aren't going to do serial, I'd look at putting on an IO-RO8 as the simplest method given the voltages being switched. In some ways this will be a lot simpler than serial. However, consider that my issues with multiplexing inputs in the past all related to the various modules not being able to handle switch "delays and bounce" adequately, resulting in wrong things being interpreted into the controlling chip due to miniscule variations in timing. That's why I really like the serial system, for better accuracy in the send from the plc, and also sending confirmation back. But also, perhaps this unit can tolerate switch systems better....I haven't fully gone through the manual, only a skim, so maybe there is a setting for input times that would solve all my previous issues. cheers, Aus

The LTM38A looks to be a very useful device. Every so often I cruise google seeing if something more suitable has surfaced, but I've missed this one. That's the nature of web surfing...it might be miles down in the pack when you look, and if you don't know it's name you're stuffed. I particularly like that the serial interface returns what it has been asked to play...a good way to check. And it is stereo. And is an amp. I wouldn't be using the relay(ed) versions because I don't need them and sometimes with the systems you have to be careful in volume control/speaker setup to avoid startup/shutdown thumps. Not good for speakers. The relays on the thing look like they can only be triggered to come on concurrently with the designated file playing. But for your instance, Visco, the ability to perhaps switch different speakers around the installation might be a good thing. One sound device does messages for all plcs and locations? And I'm sure the device has been made to alleviate speaker issues doing just this situation....that's what it appears to have been built for. I know that there are two conflicting opinions in this paragraph!!! Pros and Cons both ways! So.... I would seriously consider it for my next project. The serial control wouldn't be that hard to set up, and the "file on demand" principle would be good and make things a lot easier on more complex installs. cheers, Aus

And some more info. For systems that need to run different versions at a certain time, like on the 1/4 hour etc, I prestart the sound system before the required time, so that the player has progressed through to the correct sound sequence at the matching time. Some of my files are >10 minutes, with many different sound files. Using the little modules, individual file addressing works fine in theory via more complex interfacing, but I have had issues with the sound system easily confused as to where it is. Remember that these things need to work gliche free without any human help 24/7. The single sound file system above has worked best, because it always starts from a known point. And it is really easy to put together and maintain, needing no fancy hardware apart from 2 or 3 outputs, and is essentially dirt cheap. The players are much like this sort of thing...Google Kentiger HY-502. cheers, Aus

There are always a few ways to kill that damn cat. Much of my work is what you could call "mechanical animation". So I have been working with sound files matched to plcs since the year dot. Ages ago I thought it was great when I could have CDs running concurrently with actions, instead of cartridge tape players that I'd used up till then! As tech progressed so did my methods. But I have always kept the KISS combined with the "cheap but very effective" principle in mind. If you don't have a need for the sound file to play immediately, (and it looks like a delay of up to a minute might be ok in your situation) then you can get by quite easily by having a simple SD card player with one sound file on the card containing all your messages laid out sequentially with a small bit of silence b/n them. You simply start the player running, and time your method of "speaker output volume adjustment" to turn on when the "time zone" of the relevant message is current. You can then do a simple repeat by restarting the player and doing it all again. So the longest delay is the total length of the sound file. You obviously put your "most demanded, on time" messages as the first ones in the file. You can also get little modules that react to switched inputs to play certain sound bites. With any of this, you have to be prepared to do a little hardware tinkering/mods/soldering....but it isn't rocket science! There....one of my little trade secrets is out! Boo Hoo. cheers, Aus

I respectfully disagree with Flex, in that I think thanswijk's interpretation is correct with the software units 0.1Hz, so 500Hz = 5000. With a Range of 0.1 Hz to 100kHz. But as Joe says, the module's HSO frequency is 1-500Hz at PNP, and 1Hz - 32kHz on NPN. The one thing missing from all the info is how to drive it. In theory it won't drive with the innate 1210's higher unit. I tried a quick hardware config in Visi and it brings up an MI for the operand for the module's HSO frequency. This implies that the module is driven directly by an MI at 1Hz units, and I'd be going with this. When I am in doubt, I always do a test bench mockup (as Joe suggests) to find an actual result of something theoretical. cheers, Aus

Hmmm. My immediate thoughts.... Use linked MBs or some numbers in an MI? But you would likely have to break this down into the permutations you want to have as possiblities, so that with different MBs or MI number change "everything" in the linked outputs changes in one hit so that no inadvertent clash occurs. "Type 1 = this layout, Type 2 = the next variation etc etc. Rather than keep the information about what goes where as a lot of stuff to display, which would get awkward, it would be easiest if "type 1 = these outputs, type 2 = these....." was done as a physical document which you could send as necessary. Alternatively use a Jazz with solid state outputs driving easily field replaced relays? But I know this is a fundamental change!! cheers, Aus

You need to have a good switch mode supply for all the plc components at the very least. What is the coil voltage/type shown on the existing relays? If they are 24DC then your switchmode should be driving them, too. They need to be fitted with clamps...see the post linked at the bottom. I wouldn't be having anything that is a "pulsed" supply coming anywhere near the plc. If the exisiting tranny needs to remain, I would be using separate interface relays to drive things it is working and keep things well separated. Others may disagree with this, but I never have issues with electrical noise problems because I only ever have (properly clamped) DC on/near the plc and expansions. cheers, Aus clamp post: read it all

This heavily implies that it is something within your program causing the error. An inadvertent error/typo/change in comms somewhere? cheers, Aus

I would have thought that any of the myriad buck converters around would suit the job, running from the enclosure's main 24 supply. I guess the hard part is finding a good quality one. Although not an ad for them, I try to use Mean Well all the time. It is highly likely that something like the SD-15B-05 running at the top end of it's adjustment, or one of the species in the SD-25 range would suit, and is a known good quality unit. cheers, Aus

Found this to laugh about, too. Has apparently been around a while. cheers, Aus

Florian, after doing Saragani's advice I also suggest that you think about having an alternative, independent, less capable control on each boiler that you can switch things over to very easily. All the 24/7 HVAC systems I do have sophisticated control by the plc(s), but if something should go wrong there is basic control available with a few switch changes that the owners can do to keep things running well enough until I can problem solve. So far this has never happened, but the ability is there if ever needed. Come May/June you might like to think about implementing something like this. cheers, Aus

Does Remote Access work instead? And did you use the Remote Operator changed dll that is in this post? : cheers, Aus

Sorry for not mentioning this, I had forgotten about it. it's been a while since I did U90. 😳 But as Kratmel says, it is still fairly limited depending on what you want to log. His idea of preset amounts meaning less memory use is good, but it may not suit your needs. cheers, Aus

"POWER LEDs" are very useful for making mankind's gene pool smarter. "Ohhhh, look at the pretty button! I have to touch it!" And I did ponder the second fuse down....it's a "safety fuse". It lets you brace yourself on something "safe" whilst the powder in the cartridge explodes into your eyeball. I'm still amazed it didn't pop the bullet from the shell. Great pics. cheers, Aus

With M91 there is only limited ability to do this. You could use MIs, but there are only 256 of them if you haven't used any at all, which is unlikely. You would set up your ladder so that the next amount to log is put into the next MI in the range that you have designated for your logging. But if this is happening often, you will reach the limit very quickly. Vision would let you do this much easier and with much greater capacity, with the ability to write it to an SD card as well. cheers, Aus

I guess that relates to a missing part of my question Cam, as I'm not only referring to doing remote connection, I'm also relating to using emails etc. For instance, I can't see that a VNC is going to change Google's reaction to an email connection request from a Vision. (But again, I'm not cluey enough about the total ins and outs of how networking works...I know a bit , but am no expert.) I'm really trying to see if there is anything out there that will convert the entire plc connection activity into a secure link that the world will be ok with. That's why I was wondering about the merits of a specialised serial to ethernet converter, or another piece of hardware, that does what I want by simply converting everything into a secure link. A dedicated mini PC etc sitting there that is then accessed remotely might be a solution, but that in itself is another awkward to maintain, extra complexity and ($s) problem. cheers, Aus

Hi all, Vision has an innate problem of being an older system, and the Creators are not really bothering to upgrade the O/S to accommodate more modern needs. They have Unistream. This has been discussed in various topics, including a recent one with myself and JoeT having a chat at the bottom of "Bit to Display". I am faced with big dilemmas owing to very complex programs in Vision that work very well, possible expensive changes needed to keep things secure, along with a totally new, large learning curve if I had to shift everything to Unistream. It is a very big can of worms that will quickly turn into a 44 gallon drum full of tiger snakes. (Look them up if you aren't an Aussie!) So I'm throwing up the question of possible ways around the issue of not being able to do https etc. I don't know enough about how networking and security protocols are actually implemented to see if simple solutions are possible. I have seen some devices (eg Dan B uses Ewon Flexy as an "intermediary connection") that may possibly offer a solution, but most of these seem to need some sort of Cloud usage/remote master server, and that to me totally defeats the purpose of having a secure connection in the first place if it is essentially working along the lines of a lot of IoT. I want something that will simply go direct b/n the plc and the remote user, but do it over a secure connection. My ponderings have left me wondering how secure would a connection be if you used a serial to ethernet converter, with the converter set up to be a secure connection? So instead of using the non-secure ethernet connection on the Vision, you use the serial port and the converter does it's stuff. (I have successfully trialled/used such a converter in the past, but only along the lines of not having an onboard network connection.) This gets back to my lack of knowledge.....does something essentially communicating non-securely, but being sent through a secure connection make the entire thing secure? Or is it all related to the capability of the "endpoints" (for want of a better word) and if they are non-secure is the entire thing compromised? If the serial to ethernet way is totally secure, it might be a relatively simple and cheap way of getting around the issue. More info and ideas please from those with knowledge! Along with possible units to use if the idea has merit. cheers, Aus

I'm going to run this OS issue discussion over into a new topic about possible ways around the limitiations. cheers, Aus

Ahh yes, Joe. But if the OS could be modded to suit that need, would it not do the job? cheers, Aus

A little off topic, but this is another area where the firmware in the plc could be changed to accommodate more modern needs if some of the "never used" bloatware was removed. The decision needs to be made one way or the other......either use the Links & Jumps assignments, or the HMI display loaded system, but not both. Apparently the lack of modern things is due to no more room available at the firmware-chip-inn, so my greatest wish for some time has been for the creators to revisit things and go through all the Vision system's older quirks. They should get rid of the myriad useless stuff that no-one uses eg Add/Mult/Div/Sub 3 x1, 4x1 etc, add in more modern needs and then put a big notice on that update that it "most definitely will not work with older programs" blah blah. One thing that springs to mind would be the ability to have secure connections. Perhaps another way to achieve this would be to change the chip on the board to one with much larger capacity if that is indeed the issue. But sadly it seems that good old Vision is not being concentrated on anymore, it is Unistream. In some ways this is a very anti-client path to be going down, given what Unitronics current status was built on and is apparently still the prominent seller. The world is littered with the gravesites of companies that have ignored the things users want and have concentrated on the "latest and greatest". If my $500 machine could still do the job with some minor improvements, there would be no need to change it into a $2500 machine that I won't sell! cheers, Aus

You do know you have asked this question on a specialised PLC control forum, don't you?!! This is not really a PC forum. That missing "L" makes a world of difference. However, to answer your question, you need the installer program and also any specific licence detail to load your various programs on your new PC. Alternatively, research "sysprep" and see if this might meet your needs. But generally in a "single" computer scenario the best option is going from a "virgin" operating system that is fully loaded with all drivers working correctly, and then adding everything you need to it. Depending on how many programs you have to have on your system, this can be a long and involved process. I normally load all my high use programs, and then install my others as the need arises. And I always make progressive full system backups along the way. cheers, Aus

Well....the title says it all. I hope that everyone on the forum has an enjoyable, friendly, program-bug-free next 365 days. cheers, Aus

Very cute, Isak! How is the night job coming along being a standup comic? And yes, Joe, that was a head scratcher. cheers, Aus