Ausman

Hi Vamalgise, Have a look at my post (no. 2) here: The response you're getting looks exactly like what used to happen to me on installing the latest version of either Swapper or Visi. Go through the process carefully doing my steps and you should be ok. Any upgrade of any element seemed to stuff things up....my impression is that if you put in the latest Visi, you have to go to the latest swapper for it to be able to adjust things correctly during changeover. And in doing that, you have to tell the new swapper all the loads you want, and that's where my method makes it fairly easy. Hopefully this will help. See how you go. Ohh yeah one last thing. Make sure you do each of the installs as run as admin as well. cheers, Aus

Hi Maulik, As Joe says, we need more info about the roller system. The main one to me is are both A & B driven and the primary aim is varying tension between them via closed loop control? Are C & D fixed, or on tensioner systems? These questions are relevant bearing in mind the age old concept of trying to keep things simple. cheers, Aus

+1 on Flex's comment. Also, you can backup your values before doing anything. Under Connection there is "Export PLC Operands to File" which will save all your values to your PC. It automatically goes online, gets all the values, and makes a *.opr file. You can then use this file to Import, or force to open with excel for manipulation and it works fine. If you haven't done this yet, and don't have a means within your program to save crucial values, then I strongly suggest doing it! On the pop-up, I would love to know from the Creators what exactly trips it. I encounter it often, but sometimes it is for what I see as a very minor change, whilst other times I have done lots of modifying and it doesn't show. An explanation, please. cheers, Aus

There is probably some technical reason I don't know about due to not knowing Unilogic, but I am intrigued why there is only reference to static addressing (here and in other posts) and no mention of Dynamic DNS. I use it all the time to get very specific addressing into routers where static is unavailable, and have found the most reliable to be dyn.com. Tried others, but no good, so happy to pay a little for a great service. cheers, Aus

The behaviour sounds just like what happens if you do a normal O/S install by trying through an incorrect connection type, so as Joe says...Creators please. However, just out of curiosity, does it work ok with previous versions of the programs involved? An hours worth of trying might get the workaround you need at present. cheers, Aus

Hi Michal, A suitably sized UPS would at least solve one of the causes, and would probably not be a bad thing to have anyway. In my locale UPS's on everything computer is a must. As for Msoft's annoying forced habits.....hmmmm. +1 on the ability to have "user choice" on whether to need intervention or simply run regardless. Without knowing the Unitronics' coding, perhaps it is something as simple as a registry item that changes state during run/shutdown? Might be worth spending a little time chasing it via some bench testing. You could then write a little script to change it back before starting the program. However, it is probably something within the program itself. Through a bit of simple trial and error, you can likely find what file is involved within the DataXport folder by doing copying before running the program after ok shutdown, and pasting this copy over that created during an incorrect shutdown and then starting things. Once you've isolated it down, have a script run on startup before DataXport that replaces those items involved with the "virgin" copies made. Maybe even simply copy the entire folder the same way, don't even bother chasing what is involved. This theory is easily tested. Scripts can be a little fiddly, but a little bit of time here will likely work ok. And there might be something else surface because of doing this, but hopefully not. Of course the best way is the "user choice" from the Creators, but it might take a while...if at all! cheers, Aus

so far it's great the way everyone's on this. More good answers/questions which need to be dealt with. Before doing anything else, Joe's comment re admin needs to be acted on. It is again one of those issues that I would love to be onsite with, as it would likely be fixed in a flash using accrued knowledge! I have found Unitronics to be pretty robust comms wise once things are sorted properly, so it is always a puzzle to find a thing like this. Given that you have ethernet, I'll persist there. Ensure that you have the ethernet plug in the ethernet socket, not the expansion. If you are new to Unitronics, check this very carefully as they are essentially the same type of socket and even experienced people get caught out now and then. As others have implied, I retiterate to try ethernet with direct connection, not remotely or on a network, and with correct cabling to ensure crossover. And you are altering your settings in the comms area of Visi, aren't you? Connection/Communication & OS/1st tab TCP/IP (Call), Project Settings selected and a connection saved and used via the button at the right hand end of the Project Settings line. These setting should match what is in the controller via info mode. In info mode, find the controller's ethernet sockets and make notes of all the ports in use under PCOM on TCPs. If you have one with 20256, (likely Socket1) then it is pretty much standard so use that. If everything is correct, you should get a response clicking "Get Plc Information" at the bottom of Communication & OS in Visi. If you don't, there is still something askew. Perhaps again go into Info mode, stop the unit, go to the IP settings and set it to defaults. Match the numbers into visi and try again on port 20256. If this succeeds to give you comms at least, and it should, maybe something is not set up right in the user program in the first place. Get Plc info is the most effective ping you can do to ensure it is all working ok. If none of this works, is there anywhere you can try your comms hardware & settings on another Vision controller? Serial is the 'works regardless" way, and that is why Joe is persisting with his question, so please advise. We have had entire threads here on the non-genuine usb converter issues, so it is very relevant. cheers, Aus

Hi Parag, Further to agreeing to everything already said, to me it looks like you don't have any comms at all at present. I'll weigh in with the following which might assist further: 0). (ha ha.....my first plc joke for the year!) Ensure Visi is installed and running as Admin. 1). If there is an ethernet port on the 570 try your comms using that with settings derived from the unit. 2). Using info mode, ensure that SB314 is off. 3). If still trying with 232, again check your cable. Google images for mj10-22-cs25, as well as looking up your Unitronics info, for clarity. 4). Ensure that you are plugging your 232 into the comm port, and not the expansion (or ethernet if there) port. 5). Don't run usb and 232 together. 6). Check all the 232 parameters decided upon in Visi, and write them to the settings in Device Manager. Close out of DM and try again. I have had instances where things don't work unless Windows is set exactly the same. Vary your speed settings around, doing the same things with settings in DM, and try again. 7). You should at least be able to get into some sort of communication with it. If you achieve this, and it still refuses an upload, then it is likely not burned. Keep asking, anyway! cheers, and HNY to all. Aus

Hi Nildo, Perhaps this might explain Struct Vect a little better; Imagine you have to move all your relatives and friends to a new city. You bring them all into a central area, thus collecting their different types of addresses all into one place. You then pack them all together and send them by bus (ho ho) to their new city. Once arrived at the central area there, you unpack them and send them all out to different addresses in the new city. So in your case at the source end you use Struct Vect, with the Data Direction set at "From mixed data locations to vector", to collect all your operands' addresses into one (or multiple) Vector that you send along the UniCAN line, using UniCAN Send. Once it arrives at your destination PLC, you use Struct Vect there, but at this end you are selecting "From vector to mixed data locations" to unpack all the data in the vector to the various addresses you want it to go to in the destination PLC. This can be a little confusing as you have to keep track of your source addresses and where you are going to put them in the destination PLC as you unpack them. I use screenshots of the source Struct Vect to make this a little easier. I hope this clears it up a little for you. cheers, Aus

Struct Vect is confusing because it doesn't come up under the Vector Operations header in the index of the Help files. It only comes up if you actually search for "struct". Just a suggestion and thought it might help, Nildo. cheers, Aus

Ahhh, the old Linz Min Max issue. I raised it a while ago and haven't seen anything yet. I also do it differently to Joe's method. I always have the Linz working, and do a compare on it's result. eg If the Linz result MI1 is lower than MI2, store MI2 into MI1. Same for the Max. This obviously goes after the Linz in the ladder. This method lets me easily change the min/max for fine tuning of controls/valves etc, in that I can change values online and then write them into the power up value once optimised. I would still love easily adjusted min/max to be part of the Linz in the first place! cheers, Aus

Hmm, starting to lose thoughts. It definitely looks like it isn't getting anything in on the 232 lines. I asked about the pins appearance because I have had instances where clumsy insertions of plugs have bent the pins enough out of shape that they don't contact correctly. It has occured where people have used custom 4 pin plugs in the 6 pin socket. Use a leaded plug to check continuity b/n that plug's lead tails and where you can probe onto the socket pins with the plc opened. Clutching at straws now..... Check the unit ID no. via info mode and ensure it is no. 1. If it isn't, change it to 1, it shouldn't make a difference but worth a try. Force reset of the 232 parameters in info mode and try again ensuring all params match. Perhaps try some older versions of the U90 program? Start with 3.9.2 which is still there on the website. I always hate this sort of thing. It looks like a hardware failure, but then much later I find something simple that is the cause. Anyone else on the forum with ideas? Joe T is the font of wisdom! Are you there, Joe? !! Maybe there is a comms lock SB on the M90 that I don't know about? I don't believe they have them, but maybe it is there but not generally known? Repair.....don't know, but don't think they would. cheers, Aus

Hi Gabe and welcome, You seem to have done everything. At this stage I'd be making a cup of tea and then checking a few extra things. Ensure your jumpers are back to 232. 1 & 2 = A, 3 & 4 = B. (Although in theory 3 & 4 work ok at A). 1). What is getting listed in the connections description at the bottom of the pc screen during attempts? Or find ComLog.txt in the main program. 2). Maybe increase the timeouts on the 232, just to see what happens. Ensure that what you are using in U90 is the same in the main Windows comm settings area for that port. 3). Use Hyperterminal as described in the Help files to check the basics of the connection. Index=communications--> Using Hyperterminal to check PC-PLC direct communications. See how that goes and report. Or is that what you did in your point 1? 4). If that doesn't get anywhere, I'd be carefully probing the port terminals and ensuring that the relevant pin is getting to the board. Have a look in the port to physically confirm all pins are present and look to be in good shape. cheers, Aus

I mainly use Data tables as logging devices. They are quite large, get written daily to the SD and I routinely download them from the SD using Explorer. They then start again for the next 24 hour period. Sometimes I need info before the table is written to the SD, and if I have a few in use, getting instant info about them is a PITA. I access Data Tables directly using Visi. Clicking on each table name highlights that table and brings the last saved into view. The PITA is that when I use Connection/Read Structure and Values from PLC to get the current values, Visi uploads ALL the tables. On a slow connection this is very annoying, and a big waste of time. Can we please have this changed to just have the selected table uploaded? cheers, Aus

Hi everyone, I'm sure you've all had those amazing instances where you do something on a site and some totally unrelated action happens exactly as you finish some switch action or similar. It makes you jump and think that you've caused something somehow, but it is just simply silly coincidence. Well....today, I would swear that my wife has some sort of ESP tuned into me. I was checking our pump systems over, getting ready for the upcoming bushfire season. We are on acres and bushfires are a fact of life, given we are in one of the most prone areas in the world. You have to look out for yourself. (We do, but many don't!) Our extensive pump system draws from a number of dams. It uses diesels for main fire use and electrics for general watering of her great gardens of an acre or so. For ease of use I have it set up so that she can switch the electrics on with a remote. So I toddle off to the pump shed which is a fair way down slopes from the garden areas and start work. 15 minutes in and I reconnect the diesel's battery after cleaning the posts and oil change etc. Just as I touch the + terminal to the post, on comes the electric. In the enclosed pump shed the sudden startup is very loud, so as I jump in fright I klonk my head on the low roof for the first time. "How does she do that?", I chuckle/curse to myself! She turns it off after about 10 minutes, and it remains off for another 20 minutes or so. I'm then wiggling/checking the physical SIM contacts in the modem system, and once finished turn it back on. Absolutely concurrently, up starts the pump again! Huh? Head klonk number 2. More "How does she do that?", but this time it involves a bit more cursing. She turns it off about 5 minutes later and doesn't run it again. For another test about an hour later after doing myriad minor other checks of filters etc, I dial into the system to initiate the "bushfire is close" response. The diesel is not started until everything else checks out correctly for a start, eg valves adjusted ok etc. At exactly the same time the diesel starts to crank, on comes the electric AGAIN, thus stuffing up my careful listening to the seqence. This time I cracked it, as I really need to listen carefully to the end of the sequence and I couldn't believe in coincidence number 3. I run up the stairs and paths to see if she's playing little tricks on me, to find her merrily watering away, totally oblivious to all the angst she somehow caused at exactly the right moments, 3 times in a row, for maximum heart attack. I am often amazed how such coincidences happen. A number of times over the years, I've flicked a breaker off on any small HVAC system, only to have the entire suburb go off at exactly that moment. Uhhmmmmm....I didn't do anything!!....or maybe...that was a hell of a spike from that 0.5Kw evap motor!! Or done a fundamental change to my computer network cabling layout, only to have it not work once finished. Spend hours chasing it to no avail, with everything checking out ok, only to then discover that some dick has chopped the main state line somewhere with a backhoe during the time I've had it off. What?!!! I can't be alone in this long line of strange happenings. It is just life playing little jokes on me. Perhaps someone else might like to relate their equivalents. Please tell me I'm not THAT weird! cheers, Aus

Additional to Simon's great advice, I'm assuming that the CANbus line is good quality, shielded and with the shield correctly junctioned & earthed. I would also be considering arranging a return of both EXs to Unitronics HO for them to ascertain exactly what has failed. This may turn up something that will narrow things down. They should surely be interested in case there is a batch fault etc., although it is unlikely. cheers, Aus

Ahhh....Cliff, that means your modules are not aligned properly yet! And Isakovic, I do it differently to Cliff. I always look at whatever modules I am using and note their current consumption. I then stack them with the highest users closest to whatever expansion interface I am using, and the lowest/nils at the end. I know that this isn't specified, and I know that it supposedly doesn't matter, but I just do it because it makes me feel happier. I have had instances in the past working with extended logic modules from other makers where I had to add heavier power cables other than the ribbons in use. I just think it logical (Captain Kirk!) to keep the highest users closest to the supply, thus avoiding drops along the convoluted chain that involves all sorts of connections, each one possibly a problem. cheers, Aus

Good call Simon, on SB314, I'd forgotten about this SB as I rarely use it. Too many SBs, not enough brain cells!! And for Crazi, perhaps the simplest long term solution if nothing else works is to get the cheapest vision controller that you can possibly use on another project, and make sure you can access it ok with your equipment. If you have that going ok, then go to your existing controllers and try from the known good communication config. For Simon......re Modbus and 232, I digress a little off topic, but are you saying that if I tried to access a Vision with Modbus init for use on 485, I can access the same registers with 232? I know about the port still running 232 when set for 485, (and isn't it only one port can do this on multi-port models?) But I could poll a slave init to 485 with 232 successfully? Maybe elaborate a bit here, or perhaps start a new thread just as an info source? cheers, Aus

It's not available in 9.7.55/0 either, in case it helps. cheers, Aus

I agree, Henny, I find this very frustrating. It has reached the stage where, before answering, I carefully consider whether the OP should be doing more themselves. I think that over the last year on the forum this poor behaviour has increased. Perhaps it is because more youngies are coming onto the scene. At one stage I thought that it looked like we had a whole crop of uni students doing assignments using Unitronics gear, wanting maximum help and ideas for minimal effort. In the old days, we had to look at help files and operations manuals, experiment, spend brain power and lots of time time figuring things out ourselves. Now you can just ask the internet, and some sucker somewhere will help out with what might be the right answer that you can then take credit for with no thanks where due. It seems a sad fact of modern society that basic manners and moral values seem to be disappearing. But to counter that we do still see the polite posters who respond promptly and have obviously tried, so I appreciate their thanks and don't mind helping them. And there are times when I am truly stumped on a complex issue I've studied intensely, and look to the forum for help or observations. To my mind, that's really what it is for. cheers, Aus

Hi all, I'd like to see a change in the way the forum displays answers. At present there are many members who don't get immediate posting of their responses. Whilst I agree with this in some ways, it also creates problems. The main one is multiple answering about an issue, which is annoying for those who take the trouble to do so. They craft a response and then find they look a bit silly because up pops the same answer above them when things finally get displayed. If the "immediate posting for all" rule is never going to be implemented, then I feel that the forum should generate a message saying that a "response has been had from member X, but is not up yet pending moderator approval" etc etc. The classic case of this is the answers from Henny and Isakovic here: Henny elaborates well whilst Isak give the overview of the same answer. I see this same sort of thing many times and I feel it is time for something to be changed. I acknowledge that it might be slowing a correct answer a bit, but generally if people answer on this forum they give good advice. Alternatively, allow immediate posting after a much smaller number of posts than present. To my eye it looks like Isak and Henny are not on immediate posting, but they are both great people to have on the forum with good advice when they can help. Many others are the same, so perhaps some careful study is needed to allow immediate posting to those members who have similar value. cheers, Aus

Well done. How big are the plants? I'd personally love to have a permanent river running through my place that I could extract power from! cheers, Aus

Hi Flex, that's a strange one. I have no trouble like that, but I am still using 9.7.55. However, have you been using other PLC maker's programs? Rockwell in particular was exceptionally good at stuffing up/taking over without asking/wrecking a perfect system/you get the idea my 232 port settings. I'd uninstall all your com ports and ensure that the driver used during reboot and discovery is the standard one for your ports and m/board, then try again. And make sure through task manager that nothing else is running that could be using the port...some of the other programs' services are an auto startup. From memory you also use Version Swapper, so have you tried an older Visi to see if it works ok? And for the creators, I have since checked the event log in Visi and there in the record is evidence of every start of the program opening the 232 com port and immediately closing it again. So I'm assuming that RA does the same thing. Why does it do this? It is obviously why my problem occurred. It shouldn't open any port until requested. cheers, Aus

Thanks Clint. Re SDW59. It's all pretty self-explanatory. If you are ever bored, instead of getting a coffee, go cruising through the System operands. I still find things I didn't know about, or didn't have a previous need for which meant they weren't stored in the grey matter. ......Oh alright then, you can get the coffee to have whilst you do this! cheers, Aus